I grew up in the South where that N word was thrown around like it was nothing. Luckily, I had enough sense from childhood to know that it wasn't a good thing. My family never used it either. Wanna talk stereotype? I'm stereotyped more than any black man. I'm a Southern man that respects his heritage... so I am tagged as a racist. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I have friends of all races, all colors, all religions... even sexual affiliations. While I don't always agree with choices or ideals that my friends may hold, that doesn't make them any less my friend.

As I have said many times, in my eyes the problem is, and will always be, that people of races that have been put down at some time still live in the past and want payback. If there is to be real equality, this type of thinking has to go away and start with a clean slate. All races have been in bondage at one time or another, even us evil white folks.

Your argument is faulty. It fails on many levels. May I suggest a class in Philosophy if you haven’t taken one yet? It will help you could construct a better argument.

The most basic form of argument construction is as follows:

A=B, B=C therefore A=C

It works in math most of the time, but offers many pitfalls in argument form.

For example:
All ripe Strawberries are red,
All Stop signs are red
Therefore All ripe Strawberries are Stop signs.

To minimize any issues with the redness of strawberries, I qualified them as ripe. Furthermore, we shall assume this argument is talking about “All” stop signs in the United States being the typical red ones.

I don't need a Venn diagram to understand that is a faulty argument.

I am sorry, but just because you go to a college that 3 of 10 Blacks you rub shoulders with speak something other than the "proper English" you assume you speak, doesn't mean it reflects anyone's lineage, especially mine. Furthermore, it says more about your college and those you hang out with than present any evidence representing how many Blacks speak “proper English”.

I have listened for, but not heard "I be navigating on a KC135", or "I be going to do some surgery" or even "I be going to drive my Fiero" within the “lineage” I can attribute to my family, living or dead or that of any of my Black friends. Now what I hear from my rural neighbors in Southern Illinois is entirely a different dialect, but they are not my lineage or even Black. Using your logic though, they must be since they don't speak "Proper English".

I do have a bunch of Black friends, some naturalized citizens, some not, from Bermuda, not anywhere near that aforementioned lineage of mine, or I doubt yours, that really speak "Proper English". I would venture a guess they have a better handle on the language than most Americans that have United States citizenship.

I like how, no, I am being facetious, I don't like how many have wrapped some fairly vile stuff with a smile. It goes to show that attitudes are so institutionalized when it comes to race, people don't even know they are contributing to the problem. (or if they do, they just don’t care)

Another one of those faulty arguments used in this thread has been about BET:

For those of you that have been hammering on BET, if you really have a problem with it, write VIACOM, they own the BET network.
VIACOM is a shareholder driven company that represents the best interests of a large cross section of investors, most of which are NOT Black.
May I present the CEO and President of VIACOM, the ultimate authorities on BET...
Summer Redstone
Mel Karmazin
So the next person that jumps up and has an issue with BET, which by the way was off this off topic, take it to the rich non-Blacks who run the company that owns the network.

-MasterTunerAkimoto & others of the diverse Fiero community who have spoken wise words here and in private, my pleasure making your acquaintance. In particular MTA, I can understand where you are coming from, from a few angles. One, I lived in Spain from 6 to 10 years old. We moved back to St. Louis in the early '70's. My brother, sisters and I spoke with a heavy accent and a mixture of Spanish and English, picked up by living in a rural Spain. (So much more culture to be immersed in was my Dad's thought when it came to choosing the base, the American community near Torrejon AFB, or the town of El Plantio for residence). Although some from every community were hostile, those in the European-American community would add, "Go back where you came from" along with the "N" word. Now I have always loved Hyannis, MA where I was born, but unfortunately that wasn't going to happen.

The other angle is that in this country, though there is particularly poor treatment meted out for Black immigrants, especially from the Caribbean, there is enough to go around for those born here who have never called anyplace but this country home. Then the majority wonders why non-white people in this country have a bone to pick. As if someone waved a wand in 1964 and said, gee, you can finally really vote, so be happy, we fixed it all.

I can still count on some incredibly ignorant moments in a region where Blacks make up less than 2% of the population. I doubt this treatment is because the 98% have been mistreated in any way by the 2%. I doubt that anyone around here has had their car "rigged" by a Black. Most likely, they "*rigged" it themselves. I have run into as much ignorance in Northern California and Nevada, they just speak better English, albeit it questionable if it is “proper”, when they do it.

Finally, some have used this discussion as a place to vent their pent up issues. The unspoken hatred is well represented as well, given the few responses to some truly ignorant, blatantly racist postings. I applaud those who had the backbone to keep it on track as well as speaking up against those who need some kind of therapy.
One thing I have learned over the years of putting up with in-your-face racism and bigotry is that you don't allow the truly ignorant to bait you down to their level. It is better to beat them upside the brain with dialogue than a stick, though sometimes a stick would seem more appropriate.
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Allow the true future of this country to speak... and you know what I say?

Thanks Jeff, that's a winner. It only goes to show that those who are racially and/or intellectually challenged come in all shades though don't represent anything but their own, personal issues. At least there is comfort in knowing that this comment is generally only found in a few old movies that sucked back in the early seventies and a few documentaries of the day. In either case, it ranks right up there with the some of the stupid stuff said in this thread.

Stop the hatred education is power.

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Tuners of the Quickest 4.9
12.51@118 mph

You missed the point. I was the one who brought up BET on page one. If you would do me the favor and go back and re-read, you would notice that my point was completely different. I was merely pointing out that WET will never be allowed because it would be racist, while BET is not considered to be.

Songman: You are SO wrong. No matter how much things change, things stay the same. Kicking ******s off the bus was a superficial RESULT of the hatred.

It's simply moved further underground. You all should be ashamed.

advocating violence is unacceptable.

First, you are not the only one to bring up BET in here. Second, are you saying that you consider BET to be racist? If so, please say so as you have your right to your opinion on this, but I would like to know. Third, I have heard many who have said they think BET's programming is racist. I have to admit, I don't watch much BET and didn't, even when I had a zillion satellite stations pumped into my cabin.

Instead of lamenting a lack "WET", you could turn on one of VIACOM's other networks like CMT while working for an ideal "WET". In my opinion, "WET" for the most part, is represented by dozens, if not hundreds of channels. I doubt the main reason there is not a single network "WET" is that someone might think it is racist. Clearly, despite the railing against BET, the "WTE" (in this case, White Television Executives) figure there is a buck to be made.

As far as my credibility with you being diminished, thanks for acknowledging I had some at all, with you at least. Now what a faulty argument has to do with my post about VIACOM and suggesting who those that have a problem with BET should whine to, is beyond me.

Since you want to bring up your specific comment about how "WET" would be considered racist. I wouldn't really care if you had a "WET" and it was sponsored by the KKK. Those who would pay to support that programming have the same right as BET, VIACOM, you or I do when it comes to the First Amendment and a few more when it comes to cable programming.

The only thing is that it takes money to broadcast them on a national scale. I, as well as you have a right to navigate around those channels that have programming we don't appreciate. Some TVs even let you delete the offending channels.

Now if your ideal "WET" is going to fail before it gets out of the box because some group(s) finds it distasteful, I guess it doesn't deserve channel space as of yet. BET is a cable network that seems to be thriving despite that clearly, some folks are mad because they don't have a "WET" to promote programming that is, for a lack of better term, "Euro-American" specific.

In BETs case, people seem to ignore who owns BET and claim reverse discrimination as what is keeping some ideal version of "WET" down. Many also ignore the overwhelming amount of programming directed at non-whites and no one has even flinched when it comes to Spanish language network programming that dwarfs BET as an example.

I wonder if the same objection to BET, which is really what "I don't have "WET" is about, works with Univision or Telemundo as the example of ethnically centered programming that is supported by ad revenues? It seems that targeting BET is generally off base considering the following:

"HOUSTON -- In New York, Los Angeles and Chicago, the No. 1 network for nightly news among adults ages 18 to 34 is not ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox or CNN.

It is the Spanish-language network Univision."

I mean really, Spanish language programming has to be more evil that BET is on it's most militant day! Imagine the audacity of programming in this country in a language other than "proper English" that represents the fastest growing minority and political block in the country. It would seem, that at the very minimum, Spanish programming on that scale encourages people that live here not to learn American, I mean "proper English".

By the way, I enjoy Spanish language television, when I get to watch cable or sat TV. It helps with my project to rehabilitate my Spanish and the women are so, well, so fun to watch. For the most part, I prefer TV that tells me something new, whether than be a history, science or public network. Okay, I like Junkyard wars as well.

My point is that in the many boards that I have had this same discussion on, including PFF, no one has ever once mentioned these networks when they whine about how their ideal "WET" is being held down by some groups idea of what is and is not racist programming. (Which I think is different than programming that is generally exclusive or ethnically centered.)

If you get someone to fund "WET", more power to it. I might tune in to put my finger on the pulse of the community that supports that network. In the meantime, I will have to occasionally tune in Rush L. for a semi-articulate expression of that idealism.

Of what, 40 available channels, you have *ONE* "black" network, one "hispanic" network, and 38 White Entertainment Networks.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT?!?

Oh, I forgot, Fox, NBC etc are SO not catered to white people
Or did they re-cast Friends to include visible minorities?

Oh, and FYI, most children are born white, regardless of race; Melanin production only usually starts a few days after birth. We ALL come out the same.