This Cruise accident in SF is confirming my suspicions about autonomous software (Page 4/4)
williegoat FEB 21, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

...maybe it is time to just go back to the horse and buggy - you never see those things crash into each other, but they apparently confuse the crap out of a Tesla.

This is something I have wondered about. For example: how does it distinguish a cat from a plastic bag blowing across the road? Does it kill the cat or slam on the brakes for a plastic bag?
theogre APR 14, 01:52 AM
Driver assistance feature may be factor in deadly I-95 crash near Betsy Ross Bridge: NTSB April 12, 2024 For Cliff & others NSTB is U.S. National Transportation Safety Board @ that's investigated many such cases in recent years w/ Many are still pending.

Tesla in Last Minute Deal that Settled yet another Lawsuit to keep problems Under Seal w/ Family etc signing NDA.

The Association for Computing Machinery, the Same Org that made the Turing Test, in very careful way not to "offend" anyone said in short that all "Self Driving" vehicles Are Not Ready, Should Not be On Public Roads and likely will Never Be Safe. Direct from the Horse's Mouth... ACM TechBrief 3654812.pdf

"Autopilot" "Super Cruise" & related labels hasn't be any better & continue to have same or worse problems. Far Worse, Now many fools claiming stuffing cameras & other systems will make drivers hard to cheat... Maybe but likely not & either way Wave Bye Bye for any Privacy even w/ EU "Privacy Laws." Because Every Time the "AI Thinks" your doing something wrong, all camera & sensor data with be forward to the car company & very likely more because you don't read all "ToS" etc when you buy or get into them as a passenger. Its bad already w/ cars that "phone home" regularly even under EU "privacy laws." Cops etc don't even have to install GPS tracking, just get the car's cell tower data from the phone co's. Tesla GM & others are ready Sell any data they get from the vehicles too.

Fan Boys saying "Self driving cars are safe" to "safer then humans" is the Same Crap that others claiming "open software is safe & secure" or Apple Fanboys say similar MacOS etc.

In the Real World where Hundreds of Thousands of IT workers that have to clean up the mess after "safe software" has F'ed the Enterprise again because:
● Linux itself, Bind, Apache & more "Top Level" projects have a very long history of problems including 0 day bugs & way too many times those Bugs has Been There For Years to Decades. Because many "write code" only a very small fraction if any can understand security Even Less have Time to bother looking & report the same.
● And because some "Open Source" Licenses now allow "Binary Blobs," or many "violate" such license, either way many project have them & no-one can look at all the code no matter what Cliff & others claim.
Even when a bug is "Fixed..." Many can't or won't install them for Hundreds of reasons Or the "fix" has other problems. IOW same BS has been happening on most M$ Adobe & "Closed" products forever.

Example: The only Reason the XZ Utils Backdoor got Stopped now is simple "Dumb Luck" that someone did a "speed test" / "benchmark" for an unrelated item AND actually Know how to look to find out why had problems doing the test AND Told the Public BEFORE the problem got pushed out to the planet. If the Malware "Author" just change the change or delay the activation this discovery won't happen any time soon if happens @ all. There are Many other "Open Source" projects that are "in the same boat" w/ 1 to very few main "owners" but Thousands to Millions of users w/ vast majority of All "Open Source" users do not look or care how bad many projects are, look for bugs, etc.
Cliff Pennock APR 14, 06:42 AM
Yes, those things happen. It's the exception. Not the rule.

You are just like the people who refuse to wear a seat belt because cases exist where people were actually saved by not wearing a seat belt.

Stop living in the 20th century.
kendell APR 16, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by IMSA GT:

The Cruise taxis stop when they sense emergency lights. The issue is that they stop right in the middle of the road and block the emergency vehicle from passing through. Last year, one slammed into a fire truck going through an intersection. And as a goof, people who hate the cars simply walk up and place a safety cone on the hood which causes the car to stop, turn its hazard lights on, and sit there. Just more horrible ideas from a horrible state. I'm ashamed to live here at this point.

We're living in the world were it is hard to educate the educated people.
maryjane APR 16, 05:57 AM
Much of the world in the 21st century is flat getting lazier and lazier, and often attributing it to 'safer' when it really comes down to "I just don't want to have to do this. I'm me, and therefore, I should not have to. I want everyone else, someone else, anyone else, something else to do it for me".

Can't/won't shop, can't/won't drive, can't/want act, can't/want create, can't/wont work.
"I exist, therefore, I, am entitled."

theogre APR 16, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
Yes, those things happen. It's the exception. Not the rule.

You are just like the people who refuse to wear a seat belt because cases exist where people were actually saved by not wearing a seat belt.

Stop living in the 20th century.

You are So Wrong on So many levels and you wonder why many Hate you...

You claim Self Drive etc is safe & is the Future is like any think Flying Car will happen since 1930's or most currently on the "green" side say EV don't burn @ same rate @ ICE but Ignore:
1. Only because < 1% of Total Vehicles on the Road.
2. When they burn it's a Whole Different Class of Burning that now Wrecked or Sinked Ships & more.
3. Plus the burning Batteries generates HF, Cobalt Compounds & more on the ground & in air contaminating huge areas. Ask Any Firemen anywhere in the world how bad EV fires often are.

It is the Rule & will happen More just from Car Makers adding "Features" but must keep the Bean Counters & Share Holders Happy = all parts Must Be Made Cheap like Toyota "Drive by Wire" gas pedal assembly got "jammed" then hid data from NHTSA to avoid a Recall just for the U.S. Then add no matter how Tech you have in them, people Will Find many ways to Cheat the System. Just look at the Casino Business trying to control cheating...

NTSB etc are called for many "Self Drive" "Auto Brake" & related crash vehicles w/ Nanny Features because they Fail Often. NTSB are who investigating Air Crashes, the Current Bridge Collapse is Boston MD, etc.
IIHS & Other NGOs that have Experts that Cost Millions to Billions $ per year to test vehicles & Doesn't drink the Koolaid say all have big problems and Fail Often & most Failures have Fatal Results. Like IIHS "slamming" many Current Factory Install HL that Barely "Pass" FMVSS because Car Makers only care about looks not actual lighting on the road.
Now ACM is saying Not Ready & never will be safe after reading NSTB & other reports adding problems they see & even ignoring car maker's cost to build them. But You Ignore That Too.

Tesla Et Al are Settling to Keep All Data out of Court to Stop it for getting out to everyone else because they know is a Major Scam that can likely will cause Stock Crashes, Lawsuits from Stock Holders, etc. Tesla is also hiding data from NHTSA & other Govrmnts to avoid Recalls so also Why they Settle Civil Cases.

Linus Torvalds can't make money off of Linux & keep a "day job" but Fan Boys still prop him up as "Expect" to "God" still allowing him to control the Kernel so he's just a Jobs/Gates wannabe saying FY to everyone doesn't agree He's A God yet even he can't view the million of lines of Code per Version Release. Plus and ignoring Torvalds & others are "sell outs" allow/ignore "Binary Blob" issue because must have them to support whatever to get any operation except bare minimum or nothing working at all.

Even when all can see "Open Source" code, almost no Experts & bloody few others has time. Nothing is Audited by Experts either because of Cost. Example: Remember Truecrypt "Open Source" Encryption? Funny how the project was Abandoned @ first sign was getting Audited to see was "legit" or not. How fast VeraCrypt sucked in that crowd/market & no-one has Audited the Fork still w/ added/changed Features. If ever does, expect them to Abandon the project too.

I wear seat belts and use more "modern" stuff too because I have current models as Main Car for Years but also live in the Real World & know Seat Belts & Airbags often Fail & Kill People & even w/ newer SRS setups w/ multi-inflater air bags, belt pretension, etc & that's Ignoring Takata Recall that vast numbers of vehicles never got Fixed just like most Recalls.

Stop drinking the Koolaid in your Cult Bubble and try a real job not being a "God" in your very tiny puddle.
Cliff Pennock APR 16, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by theogre:

You are So Wrong on So many levels and you wonder why many Hate you...

Wait... What?! Did you really just say that?

Dude, seriously. For the past 10 years or so, every new technology that came in existence was, in your opinion, the devil's spawn and should be avoided at all cost. Because Big Brother, Big Coorp, Big anything. And using or embracing that tech makes anyone (in your opinion) a sheeple. And yet, here we are. Nothing bad happened.

Stop drinking the Koolaid in your Cult Bubble and try a real job not being a "God" in your very tiny puddle.

Again, really? Ogre, you pretend to know everything about tech and I agree, your knowledge on Fieros (or cars for that matter) far exceeds everything *I* will ever know about cars. And for that I'm ever so grateful you are a part of our community here. But as far as other technologies concern... You more than often have no clue what you are talking about. So please refrain from calling me a Koolaid drinker and a "God in my very tiny puddle". I have been a software engineer for over 45 years now. I have been partly responsible for a lot of technologies you use on a daily basis. When it comes to (computer) tech knowledge, I will run circles around you. So don't tell me AI and FSD isn't a thing.

82-T/A [At Work] APR 16, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by theogre:


Hey Ogre... I think I speak for most when I say you're a valued member of the Fiero "community." You've been around here a long time, more than most of us, and have contributed a lot to the technical research and improvement of our cars. I know you've been through a lot the past few years, but I respectfully ask that you just consider some of the comments you make. Cliff provides this web forum to all of us, and even shares your link at the top of every Fiero page. As an "esteemed" member of the group, you should be holding yourself to a higher standard and not shitting all over Cliff. Cliff offers this web site to the community at large, and for me personally, I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for this site. I know that sounds silly, but I've been on here for over 20 years (I lost my account information and had to create a new account). This site helped me repair my Fiero when I was flat broke and working at a hardware store, and could only afford to buy parts from the junkyard. I don't like seeing people **** on Cliff, any more than I like seeing people **** on you.
maryjane APR 18, 11:27 AM
'Looking' for something else, Google took me to a reddit thread. Now, I'm old enough to remember 1950s cars and trucks being VERY common in the early 60s and just a few years later worked on lots of them in my father's auto shop. Growing up, I do not recall a single car fire other than an occasional (short lived) carb backfire caused fire if timing or distributor wires had been installed wrong. I certainly don't remember full service stations in the 1990s..they had already gone extinct. Anyway, it's the last line in this comment that really caught my eye.

Um I feel old. Driving in the 90s you'd regularly have full service gas station, they'd pump the gas, check the oil and clean the windows. They'd pull the dipstick and show you the oil, they would top you up and send you a long with whatever didn't go in. Many cars had rain tray - a convenient place to tuck a quart bottle of fluids under the hood.

Many gas stations would have a service bay with a wall of belts. It was nice to know if you were running down the road and you lost your v belt you could get one at the next gas station.

A lot of oil was lost by dripping, cars all head leaky valve covers, many gaskets were still made of cork. It wasn't until the late 80s early 90s that rubber valve cover and oil pan gaskets became more popular.

Cars caught fire a lot more back then as well.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 04-18-2024).]

Patrick APR 19, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by theogre:

Stop drinking the Koolaid in your Cult Bubble and try a real job not being a "God" in your very tiny puddle.

Jesus H. Christ on a stick! What the hell, Ogre? You are completely out of line addressing Cliff Pennock in that manner. No, I'm not sucking up to Cliff because he runs this place. That comment was totally uncalled for. I appreciate your know-how in the tech sections, but lashing out like that is... disappointing to say the least.