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Realtors- Selling adjoining properties together or separate advantages/disadvantages? (Page 1/2) |
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maryjane
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JAN 26, 12:42 PM
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Many here have seen me mention selling out and moving back West and this is the year it will happen and I'm very close to putting the place on the market now.
It's 41.4 acres of rural land, with a home and everything a working farm needs. A family member owns 41.4 acres immediately to my South, completely undeveloped, mostly woods, but it is fenced. Electricity is available within 30 of her gate. She has it on the market now (3 days on the market)
I am close enough to being ready to go that I considered putting mine up at the same time, in case a buyer wanted a larger parcel, but since mine is developed, I didn't want to siphon any prospective buyers from her. She is in a hurry to sell because she is older than I am, and wants to get all her 'stuff' in order, converting to cash instead of something unexpectedly happening and her 2 kids having to deal with it. Cash is easy to distribute to heirs. Land, not so much. Some of her's is partially cleared where as 98% of mine is all clear. Her's:
 part of mine:
 .
As I see it, someone buying all 82.8 acres might also lower the proceeds of one or the other of both properties, and, it would somewhat limit the pool of prospective buyers, as they would need to borrow more assuming they weren't a cash buyer. (neither of us are willing to do owner finance) . IMO, she has it priced about $40K too low. $6,000/acre. On the other hand, just 41 acres limits what sort of enterprise can be done with the property. I've been able to do a cow/calf operation here, but I also leased another 65 acres to supplement my grass. I didn't always use it all but it was there if I needed it. I have an option on another 1.4 ac to lease but I haven't used it because I would need to build more cross fences, which is all moot, since I'm moving too.
So anyway, which is the better option for both parties? 1. Putting both properties up at the same time frame? 2. Letting her's sell 1st hoping she gets the most possible?
All of it, is in the 500 yr flood plain, but some of hers did not get flooded in the flood of record Harvey 2017.
 [This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-26-2021).]
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Patrick
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JAN 26, 01:59 PM
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quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Her's:
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Your sister is a fine woman... she's retained trees on her property. 
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maryjane
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JAN 26, 04:35 PM
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quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
Your sister is a fine woman... she's retained trees on her property. 
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And, those hideous plants are going to cost her a LOT of money too. If she keeps the property, she will lose her ag production based property tax exemption because we as a county were not able to get the requirement removed that says grazing property be 75% cleared open space. Since she won't clear them off, the state and county says it is SHE that has opted to remove the property from 'ag production' and she will be receiving a bill from the county for the last 5 year's difference between what the regular tax would have been and what she was assessed and paid under ag exemption. That bill, will be due IN FULL 24 hrs after it arrives in her hand certified mail. She has 1 full day to pay it in full or it will begin accruing late fee penalties on a daily basis. It's called 'rollback'.
In addition, even tho our properties are identical in acreage, her's (even taking into account my structural improvements, house, barn, shop) is appraised 1/3 less market value as mine, simply because it's just another tree filled parcel among many tens of thousands of other acres of wooded land. After 30 days, she is considered in arrears, tax delinquent and she will not be able to sell it.
If, after 180 days she still hasn't paid the rollback, her property gets a lien on it, and the whole 41.4 ac will be auctioned off the 2nd Tuesday of the following month on the courthouse steps. All, just for a bunch of dang trees.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-26-2021).]
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blackrams
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JAN 26, 04:52 PM
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Well, since you asked.
Her property doesn't have near the value as yours (due to all those frigging trees). She may be lucky to sell it, I don't know the market there. I'm thinking that she should offer it to you and then you sell it as part of your place. You can always pay her fair market value at some point in the future. Would there be an option to have the trees on her property harvested? Might make a few bucks for the logs. None of my suggestions may be an option that good for you or her but, I think that way, there is still an option to sell them together or as separate properties. It's only money.................. 
Rams
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maryjane
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JAN 26, 05:08 PM
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She and I get along great, and we want that to remain so. I want no kind of entanglements with her property beyond 'maybe' putting mine on the market during the same time period. She already offered it to me previously at a 'family first right of refusal' discount. I politely declined. If loggers moved in there tomorrow, it would be over a year before the place could reasonably be ready to sell. It's a typical wet muddy winter here in East Texas.
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Patrick
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JAN 26, 05:50 PM
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quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
...those hideous plants
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Don, you'd just hate the Pacific Northwest.
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blackrams
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JAN 27, 05:20 AM
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quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
And, those hideous plants are going to cost her a LOT of money too. If she keeps the property, she will lose her ag production based property tax exemption because we as a county were not able to get the requirement removed that says grazing property be 75% cleared open space. Since she won't clear them off, the state and county says it is SHE that has opted to remove the property from 'ag production' and she will be receiving a bill from the county for the last 5 year's difference between what the regular tax would have been and what she was assessed and paid under ag exemption. That bill, will be due IN FULL 24 hrs after it arrives in her hand certified mail. She has 1 full day to pay it in full or it will begin accruing late fee penalties on a daily basis. It's called 'rollback'.
In addition, even tho our properties are identical in acreage, her's (even taking into account my structural improvements, house, barn, shop) is appraised 1/3 less market value as mine, simply because it's just another tree filled parcel among many tens of thousands of other acres of wooded land. After 30 days, she is considered in arrears, tax delinquent and she will not be able to sell it.
If, after 180 days she still hasn't paid the rollback, her property gets a lien on it, and the whole 41.4 ac will be auctioned off the 2nd Tuesday of the following month on the courthouse steps. All, just for a bunch of dang trees.
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If the property sells, are the back taxes still due? I assume she would still be the responsible party???????? Are those taxes a small, large or very large sum of money? Edited: I give a buck two ninety-eight but, the majority of those trees gotta go.
Rams[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-27-2021).]
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maryjane
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JAN 27, 01:23 PM
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quote | Originally posted by blackrams:
If the property sells, are the back taxes still due? I assume she would still be the responsible party???????? Are those taxes a small, large or very large sum of money? Edited: I give a buck two ninety-eight but, the majority of those trees gotta go.
Rams
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Complicated. Small, large, or very large sum of money, naturally depends on the appraised tax value of the property and the appraised market value of the property. as opposed to the ag market value and the ag production capability On a large tract (hundreds or thousands of acres) it can be a very large amount, as is true if the property is very desirable and is appraised high in value.
Ag exemption in Tx is not a true 'exemption' but is actually a special or different way of computing the taxable value of the land. It is often referred to as open space valuation or special valuation. (remember, rollback would be for the previous 5 years, or at least for as long as it was under ag exemption if less than 5 years) Here is an example of the difference between normal property valuation taxes and ag taxes from a different county:
quote | As you are probably aware, local governments such as cities, counties, and school districts raise a large portion of their operating revenues through the levying of ad valorem property taxes, or taxes based upon the value of property. Texas property tax laws give some special considerations to agricultural land if the owner files a valid application and provided that the land meets certain qualification requirements. What kind of special consideration? For example, the total property tax bill for a 100 acre tract of non-agricultural land in the Lockhart Independent School District worth $2,998 per acre in 2012 would be $3,558.03. The tax on 100 acres of open native pasture land that qualifies for agricultural appraisal would be $83.08. You may know this special consideration by the name of agricultural tax exemption, but instead of a true exemption, it is actually a special method of valuation. |
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$3558.03 minus $83.08
That is a difference of $3474.95 X 5 years=17,374.75 AND, it only accounts for the single school district mentioned. I pay property taxes to 2 different school districts + The County itself (administration) + Road and bridge (county commissioners) + EMS/public health/Sherrif Dept+ a local county managed electric power unit. Each of these is called a 'taxing unit' or 'taxing entity' and in their view, each is 'losing money every time a property get qualified for ag exemption. Each one, will want to recoup that perceived 'loss' thru rollback BUT, not every one gets the same size slice of pie. The milage rate is smaller for some than others, with school districts definitely the largest.
A friend of mine across the river is looking at rollback on 11 acres and he has been told it could cost him approximately $38,000 for the last 5 years ag.
(Even if your property is sold at auction for back taxes, you can still get it back by paying the new ower what he gave for the property + some fees if you do it within 2 years of auction ..which is why it is so risky to buy property at a tax sale)
There is alo a stipulation, that IF the new owner continues an ag enterprise on their newly acquired property (even if it isn't qualified under ag exemption) then rollback won't be triggered. Why? Because (in Tx anyway) the whole purpose of the ag exemption bill that was signed into law so many years ago is to Keep Land In Agriculture Production. It is always the Land and it's calculation production value that gets the exemption, not the ag enterprise itself.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-27-2021).]
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MidEngineManiac
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JAN 27, 01:57 PM
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And you WONDER why some of us have lost all interest in "owning" property ?
It's the ability to say "NOT my problem, I paid my rent now go bother somebody else with your blackmail schemes."
I'm LONG past the point of being willing to be held hostage with "things"[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-27-2021).]
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maryjane
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JAN 27, 03:48 PM
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I don't wonder why one bit. I've never really had any big problem with owning 'things' or property. My sister, I expect, assuming the latest offer holds good, will have an after tax profit close to $200K on this sale, including taking out for filing fees, and commission.
Choices have consequences. sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes great.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-27-2021).]
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