Is Social Justice a disease? (Page 8/21)
MidEngineManiac JAN 11, 03:18 PM
Well....it IS legal for women to be topless in public in Ontario.....

Problem is, the only ones that do have ya screaming "Put it on, Put it on"
theBDub JAN 11, 03:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
White people made up a SIGNIFICANT majority of citizens in this country from Revolutionary times to present time. Obviously the native Americans lived here first, but they did not exist in the same numbers as those that came here. They fought constantly amongst themselves and killed themselves off. We have a pristine idea of Native American Indians as being one with Earth, but largely they were warring tribes that barbarically killed eachother. Super-awesome culture, but never the less, they did not exist in enormous numbers like the Colonists did. From the founding of the United States, to even just ~30 years ago, whites made up almost 80% of the population in the United States.

Fortune 500 is a list of 500 American companies. Since at the time most of these CEOs were born, white people dominated the population, it would only make sense that the overwhelming vast majority of these would be run by white people.

Incidentally, we've had massive immigration from all over the world in the span of the last 30 years, and the United States is now more diverse than it's ever been in 30 years, I expect the Fortune 500 companies to be reflective of the population break-out as it exists *TODAY*, not 30 years from now.


Incidentally, white people are a minority in overall world population. The top 10 wealthiest people, 8 of them are white, and 7 of them are American. This is because the United States is also the wealthiest nation in the world... for a variety of reasons:

1 - We didn't get our country completely destroyed during WW2 since the battle was fought in Europe and in Asia
2 - We have (had?) the most successful free-market system in the world which coupled with #1, allowed us to quickly become the dominant economy in the world

Both of these led to where we are with Fortune 500 companies.



Agreed with this, with the addition that White people not only dominated in population, but they were the only ones allowed to own property and businesses in some states for a long time, a time when some of these companies were started.

I think what people are wrestling with, is how long this perpetuates. Say your great-grandfather built a fortune off the exploitation of Black people who didn't have other options. Maybe he built a distillery, I don't know. Then he passes that on to his family, passes it down to you. You did nothing wrong, and it shouldn't be taken from you. At the same time, kinda sucks that you're thriving off a foundation built on exploitation. No answers here, because I don't have them, but wealth perpetuates (within a few generations usually), and economic hardship perpetuates. Some make it out, some even turn it into a fire of opportunity (like many first-generation immigrants). It's difficult to just ignore all of the history and nuance and pretend like we should all move on, though.

I do want to be clear, I don't believe in providing for or holding back based on the color of someone's skin or what is between their legs. I do believe in the power of diversity to provide valuable insight to a team, but this diversity is primarily going to be diversity of thought and experiences.
maryjane JAN 11, 05:24 PM

quote
but this diversity is primarily going to be diversity of thought and experiences.

...... based upon....?
Jake_Dragon JAN 11, 07:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

truly this is going to take more research.
Honestly, my exposure to pink nipples has been mostly online. Direct access has been more of a tan variety with a pink undertone.
But if we are going to start using this as a way of labeling people instead of race then I am you man!!



So I told my girlfriend about this.
She gave me the full of **** face, then asked me what color hers were.
I don't know if you planned this or not but I got to see her nips in the middle of the day and was getting paid to do it

Pink and she was shocked to find out she was white.
sourmash JAN 11, 07:33 PM
BDub, once was heard a discussion locally with Black and White political activists about Affirmative Action wherein the Black guy said he'd like to see 6 generations of AA so families could build generational wealth in some similar fashion as the norm.

Got a sibling who was the first in our family to earn a 4 year. So, not a lot of wealth was going around. Just normal middle class.
2.5 JAN 12, 05:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

You did nothing wrong, and it shouldn't be taken from you. At the same time, kinda sucks that you're thriving off a foundation built on exploitation. No answers here, because I don't have them, but wealth perpetuates (within a few generations usually), and economic hardship perpetuates. Some make it out, some even turn it into a fire of opportunity (like many first-generation immigrants). It's difficult to just ignore all of the history and nuance and pretend like we should all move on, though.

I do want to be clear, I don't believe in providing for or holding back based on the color of someone's skin or what is between their legs. I do believe in the power of diversity to provide valuable insight to a team, but this diversity is primarily going to be diversity of thought and experiences.



We can say we don't have the answers, that we don't believe in holding folks back due to their skin color, surely few will say they do.

But do we condone it by what we do at work? What we say? What we promote? What we don't say? Do we look the other way? Does our social environment make us feel like we have to edit our common sense?

Also, if we are considering how certain "groups" came to power:

First we must use racism or its cousin to classify the groups.

Secondly, what will we consider an infraction in this system? Since the beginning of time people have disagreed, fought, tribe vs tribe, nations have conquered nations, culture vs culture. How do the brilliant racists suggest we track backwards through all of recorded history and undo all of this? Which infractions do we ignore? Sounds tongue in cheek but it can't be.


[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-12-2021).]

theBDub JAN 12, 06:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


We can say we don't have the answers, that we don't believe in holding folks back due to their skin color, surely few will say they do.

But do we condone it by what we do at work? What we say? What we promote? What we don't say? Do we look the other way? Does our social environment make us feel like we have to edit our common sense?

Also, if we are considering how certain "groups" came to power:

First we must use racism or its cousin to classify the groups.

Secondly, what will we consider an infraction in this system? Since the beginning of time people have disagreed, fought, tribe vs tribe, nations have conquered nations, culture vs culture. How do the brilliant racists suggest we track backwards through all of recorded history and undo all of this? Which infractions do we ignore? Sounds tongue in cheek but it can't be.







In my opinion, it’s more (X)ist to completely ignore someone’s (color/sex/gender/etc) as a component of their identity, than it is to see how it is a part of them and contributes to their uniqueness. So I don’t see it as using the “cousin” of racism to do so, though I certainly see the value in that train of thought.

Whiteness was power for a long time in America. And that power shifted to different access of resources that still contribute to an imbalance of power today. Ignoring that doesn’t address it, and failing to address it continues the imbalance.

For what it’s worth, I see this conversation as an exchange of ideas. I don’t have the answers and don’t know how to address the “issues” I’ve described.
2.5 JAN 13, 02:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

In my opinion, it’s more (X)ist to completely ignore someone’s (color/sex/gender/etc) as a component of their identity, than it is to see how it is a part of them and contributes to their uniqueness. So I don’t see it as using the “cousin” of racism to do so, though I certainly see the value in that train of thought.

Whiteness was power for a long time in America. And that power shifted to different access of resources that still contribute to an imbalance of power today. Ignoring that doesn’t address it, and failing to address it continues the imbalance.

For what it’s worth, I see this conversation as an exchange of ideas. I don’t have the answers and don’t know how to address the “issues” I’ve described.




Thats the diversity kool aid they would like us all to drink, in order to endlessly categorize people, and separate us into identity groups to be used as tools.

Of course, yes we are exchanging ideas.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but everything I say here is for everyone who ever reads it. Ending each thought with I dont have the answers, and I can see the value of the opinion I do not share, is something easier to do than to decide what one believes. It works until beliefs are tested. It works until its too late.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-13-2021).]

theBDub JAN 13, 02:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Thats the diversity kool aid they would like us all to drink, in order to endlessly categorize people, and separate us into identity groups to be used as tools.

Of course, yes we are exchanging ideas.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but everything I say here is for everyone who ever reads it. Ending each thought with I dont have the answers, and I can see the value of the opinion I do not share, is something easier to do than to decide what one believes. It works until beliefs are tested. It works until its too late.




Sure it’s easier, but just because you take a stance doesn’t mean your stance is correct. I know diversity of ideas benefits performance at a company and on a team, and I believe that’s very important. I don’t know how I feel about achieving that. I know White people overall benefited by long-held power in this country, and that power still impacts today. I don’t know how I feel about rectifying that (especially considering it’s not a 1x1 rule). I know grouping us all as humans does not address that imbalance, and don’t think “not seeing race” is a virtue. My wife is a POC and her life is still impacted by that today, and the worst offenders are not people acknowledging her race, they’re all White men who claim they don’t see race.

I’m very comfortable saying I don’t know on this one.
2.5 JAN 13, 03:15 PM
At least you have an opinion on part of it, and shared it. Thanks.

One thing I've noticed is many of the people outspoken on the diversity side of it, (the ones that arent just sheep without a reason) seem to have a family member or friend who they see as a victim. Someone who is oppressed, so they need to identify an oppressor. You seem to have identified one, but see that it doesnt make sense to act on it. Doesnt that mean there is a flaw in the thought pattern logic?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-13-2021).]