 
     |
| All political threads temporarily moved to the Trash Can (Page 7/12) |
|
Rickady88GT
|
FEB 22, 12:57 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
Rather than relying on a moderator to create a particular area for political wrangling, simply don't open threads marked 'politics'.
Self censor rather than promote any type of censorship of speech.
If one doesn't want to participate, then use your mental 'ignore' function.
Our system is built on personal responsibility.
We need to get back to that on lots of levels.
Why should we burden Mr. Pennock with our own lack of the exercising of personal responsibility.
Just Say No. |
|
I don't think you are wrong, in fact I agree, in principle. In practice this hasn't worked and has led up to this point. Cliff has mentioned this behavior before and after all his efforts to curb it, here we are.
Politics doesn't have to be a part of PFF, but the risk is that topics become political or close enough that they will get closed if politics is banned. There should be an outlet for political discussion that does not.bother others. That includes seeing the traffic of political threads clog the first page.
|
|
|
|
williegoat
|
FEB 22, 01:15 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I don't think you are wrong, in fact I agree, in principle. In practice this hasn't worked and has led up to this point. Cliff has mentioned this behavior before and after all his efforts to curb it, here we are.
Politics doesn't have to be a part of PFF, but the risk is that topics become political or close enough that they will get closed if politics is banned. There should be an outlet for political discussion that does not.bother others. That includes seeing the traffic of political threads clog the first page. |
|
Everything worked fine the way it was for many years.
Much like the gun control arguments proffered by the left, placing additional restrictions on responsible adults will not change the behavior of a few antisocial troublemakers. It is up to us to self police.
|
|
|
|
olejoedad
|
FEB 22, 01:34 PM
|
|
The argument for moderation in the O/T section is akin to citizens of countries giving up freedoms and privacy for financial transaction convenience.
To those of you that pester Cliff via PM - grow the fark up - deal with it.
|
|
|
|
Rickady88GT
|
FEB 22, 01:54 PM
|
|
Again, I agree in principle, but Cliff is in this very situation again because something hasn't prevented the arguments. I should know, because I have been in many of those arguments. Even I fail to use restraint, but even if I were to become a model forum member, how could I expect others to the same? They make up their own mind
So, how do you think this issue should be dealt with?
I ignore posts, topics, and persons but that is how I deal with this issue. Others don't do this, so arguments and related stuff bother Cliff and others. How can this issue be resolved, in your opinion?
I don't see a problem with politics being moved out of OT, I don't see it as censorship or any other type of violation of civility. We have several other sections of PFF so as to narrow down the traffic that people may not be looking for. Political threads to me fit that exact bill.
If people don't drink, they don't go in the Bar, we shouldn't bring the bar, pool tables and associated problems out to the streets where people are doing fine with out it. We will all know where to go to jump in the political arena,.....IF we feel adult enough for it.[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 02-22-2022).]
|
|
|
|
williegoat
|
FEB 22, 02:33 PM
|
|
Part of the problem with moving "political" threads is that almost anything can become political. I have had people try to start arguments in music threads, as I mentioned above. I once started a thread about a video where someone was discussing racism in music education. I marked the thread as political and stated that in my first post. A member (who is now banned) tried to start an argument about the fact that I marked the thread as political. I started a tread about guitars, only to have another (now banned) antisocial member try to accuse me of sending him "PM rants". The problem is not the topic, but rather a few antisocial individuals.
Whether someone shoots up a nightclub, a Christmas party, a Walmart or a movie theater, the problem is not the gun or the public gathering, but rather the person who commits the act. The solution is to identify these people and isolate them from polite society.
edit: That gives me an idea. Instead of sending a thread or topic to the trash can, or putting a user on probation, send the user to the trash can. Create an area, call it jail or kindergarten or purgatory, but restrict a troublemaker to detention. Let him rant and rave all he wants, let the world see. But he won't be bothering the adults. I know, silly idea, but it would be fun to watch.[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-22-2022).]
|
|
|
|
Rickady88GT
|
FEB 22, 03:11 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Part of the problem with moving "political" threads is that almost anything can become political. I have had people try to start arguments in music threads, as I mentioned above. I once started a thread about a video where someone was discussing racism in music education. I marked the thread as political and stated that in my first post. A member (who is now banned) tried to start an argument about the fact that I marked the thread as political. I started a tread about guitars, only to have another (now banned) antisocial member try to accuse me of sending him "PM rants". The problem is not the topic, but rather a few antisocial individuals.
Whether someone shoots up a nightclub, a Christmas party, a Walmart or a movie theater, the problem is not the gun or the public gathering, but rather the person who commits the act. The solution is to identify these people and isolate them from polite society.
edit: That gives me an idea. Instead of sending a thread or topic to the trash can, or putting a user on probation, send the user to the trash can. Create an area, call it jail or kindergarten or purgatory, but restrict a troublemaker to detention. Let him rant and rave all he wants, let the world see. But he won't be bothering the adults. I know, silly idea, but it would be fun to watch.
|
|
I agree that political threads them selfs aren't the problem, but that the individuals themselves can cause an issue in any thread. BUT what do you think would resolve this issue? We all know there are a few topics that can make people's blood boil and politics is one of them.
Members have been banned (some came back under different names) they have been on probation and warned multiple times. But yet,... this issue is alive and well. People let arguments get the best of them. Currently I believe the forum rules are fine,.... for me. But they don't stop others from staying civil. Something needs to change to encourage better behavior
|
|
|
|
olejoedad
|
FEB 22, 03:18 PM
|
|
In polite society (remember when there was polite society), those in close proximity to the trouble makers ostracized them - until they changed their tune or someone not so polite changed their tune for them.
The ratings system worked when there was a lot of traffic on this Forum. There isn't much traffic anymore......and most of the traffic that is here seems to be in O/T.....in the political threads.
|
|
|
|
williegoat
|
FEB 22, 03:20 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
I agree that political threads them selfs aren't the problem, but that the individuals themselves can cause an issue in any thread. BUT what do you think would resolve this issue? We all know there are a few topics that can make people's blood boil and politics is one of them.
Members have been banned (some came back under different names) they have been on probation and warned multiple times. But yet,... this issue is alive and well. People let arguments get the best of them. Currently I believe the forum rules are fine,.... for me. But they don't stop others from staying civil. Something needs to change to encourage better behavior |
|
When is the last time you heard about Rosie O'Donnell or Pee Wee Herman? Not in a long time, right? Why? Because nobody goes to their shows. We ignored them and they went away.[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 02-22-2022).]
|
|
|
|
Rickady88GT
|
FEB 22, 03:36 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by olejoedad:
In polite society (remember when there was polite society), those in close proximity to the trouble makers ostracized them - until they changed their tune or someone not so polite changed their tune for them.
The ratings system worked when there was a lot of traffic on this Forum. There isn't much traffic anymore......and most of the traffic that is here seems to be in O/T.....in the political threads. |
|
Yes, I remember because quite honestly there is still a lot of polite people around. But here on PFF we have to deal with a phenomenon called "keyboard warriors". This is a behavior that takes over some people in the absence of personal physical presence of others. The primal nature in some people comes out when interacting with the anonymous screen, the lack of attitude adjustments. Obviously I am not talking about physical adjustments but simply facial and body language is a huge factor in communicating. Without it, conversation can be "lacking". This is normal for the average person, add to this anonymous digital community the edgy or normally abrasive personalities, and now we are where we are now discussing this issue again and making forum rules changes to combat this behavior.
So I simply ask, what you think would be a good idea to deal with this issue. The current system isn't preventing the bad behavior and continuing without outright banishment will also fail.
|
|
|
|
Rickady88GT
|
FEB 22, 03:40 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
When is the last time you heard about Rosie O'Donnell or Pee Wee Herman? Not in a long time, right? Why? Because nobody goes to their shows. We ignored them and they went away.
|
|
Last time I looked several threads just got moved because people couldn't ignore them.
I agree that people should avoid this bad behavior, but I am not in denial of the fact that things change. If Rosie or Pee Wee were on PFF they might have been contributing to the behavior, and or be the focusof it??
|
|
|
|