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| The narrative that the Capitol protest was a “deadly insurrection” is falling apart (Page 7/110) |
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82-T/A [At Work]
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MAY 09, 02:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
It's not so much what you say in that checklist of Democrats vs Republicans, historically. It's what you don't say.
Eugenics, for example. I've seen documentaries on how that took hold and gained a following in the United States. Democrats--yes. Republicans--yes. The Eugenics movement attracted many Republicans. Well to do and wealthy Republicans. They were called out in the TV documentary that I saw, sitting side by side with Democrats at a large Eugenics movement gathering and banquet.
What about the years that passed after World War One and the years that most directly led up to the outbreak of World War Two? Were the Republicans any better, on the whole, than the Democrats during that period--looking back at it in the rearview mirror of history? I think that would be a hard case to make.
I look at your "checklist" and I see an oversimplified view of history. A "2-D" version of history. |
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I think it's VERY important that you recognize how horrible the history of the Democrat party is. Sure, there are a lot of bad Republicans that joined Democrats in doing bad things. But you must recognize that while you look at this from a 2D perspective, all of those things I mention are unique Democrat-initiated practices. Whether a few Republicans joined in or not does not negate the fact that these were predominantly-Democrat feelings / ideas.
| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
I don't find it at all convincing towards the premise of why someone of today would do better for themselves or for their community (their state; the United States) to "be" or to "go" Republican than Democrat. I'm sure that other ways of supporting that premise are available, but your "checklist"..? Doesn't work for me.
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I'm certainly not trying to convince you that the Republican party is better. What I am trying to do is open your eyes to the history of your party. I'm just not sure I understand the constant drum-beat that you provide on here that Republicans are the villain and racist, and the root of all evils, when quite clearly we can see that literally every single one of these bad things started, began, and persisted with the Democrat party.
On the face of this, I am merely confronting the narrative that you're pushing that Republicans are racist, by showing you that it's actually the Democrats who started all of it, and have 99% of the blood on their hands.
I would VERY much like to see a competing "checklist" from you that counters what I said.
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sourmash
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MAY 09, 02:43 PM
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It doesn't amaze me, because I got used to it, how people will just make up stories because they're behind a keyboard and think people will believe some bs.
Call-in talk shows and internet platforms attract these people because they've exhausted other outlets where people just walk away or not answer their calls.
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rinselberg
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MAY 09, 04:04 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I think it's VERY important that you recognize how horrible the history of the Democrat party is. Sure, there are a lot of bad Republicans that joined Democrats in doing bad things. But you must recognize that while you look at this from a 2D perspective, all of those things I mention are unique Democrat-initiated practices. Whether a few Republicans joined in or not does not negate the fact that these were predominantly-Democrat feelings / ideas.
I'm certainly not trying to convince you that the Republican party is better. What I am trying to do is open your eyes to the history of your party. I'm just not sure I understand the constant drum-beat that you provide on here that Republicans are the villain and racist, and the root of all evils, when quite clearly we can see that literally every single one of these bad things started, began, and persisted with the Democrat party.
On the face of this, I am merely confronting the narrative that you're pushing that Republicans are racist, by showing you that it's actually the Democrats who started all of it, and have 99% of the blood on their hands.
I would VERY much like to see a competing "checklist" from you that counters what I said. |
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I'm just here to confirm that I read this from "82".
Democrats vs Republicans is kind of its own topic--a subtext--inside of this thread that comprises the original "Capitol protest" topic.
It would take one or more new voices to move it forward or improve it in any way; that is, other forum members who haven't already commented on this "D vs R" subtext.
I'd be surprised if that happens.
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williegoat
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MAY 09, 04:53 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
I'm just here to confirm that I read this from "82".
Democrats vs Republicans is kind of its own topic--a subtext--inside of this thread that comprises the original "Capitol protest" topic.
It would take one or more new voices to move it forward or improve it in any way; that is, other forum members who haven't already commented on this "D vs R" subtext.
I'd be surprised if that happens.
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There are no more political discussions here. It has deteriorated to a handful of guys misrepresenting or misunderstanding the facts, or downright lying, then berating or insulting the other participants for doing the exact same thing.
Nobody is willing to learn, nobody is winning.
Everyone thinks he has something to prove. Nobody cares. It is just boring.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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MAY 09, 05:05 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
I'm just here to confirm that I read this from "82".
Democrats vs Republicans is kind of its own topic--a subtext--inside of this thread that comprises the original "Capitol protest" topic.
It would take one or more new voices to move it forward or improve it in any way; that is, other forum members who haven't already commented on this "D vs R" subtext.
I'd be surprised if that happens.
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You know I'm not trying to be a jerk with you. I'm just legitimately trying to have a conversation, so I hope you know that. The history of the Democrat party has some good in it, but I also see them as categorically being on the wrong side of history for pretty much the past 100 years. There was some positive that came out of FDR's absurdly long presidency, and of course I'm a pretty big fan of Kennedy. I also agree with some things that Bill Clinton pushed. But a very large portion of the Democrat party's history is extremely bad... some of the most atrocious things that happened in this country, happened under their direct leadership and control... because of them, and by them. That is something that we cannot, and should not ignore. Especially when the narrative pushed by Democrats is the exact opposite. It would not be unlike the modern day NAZI party being responsible for teaching Kindergarten children that Jewish people are special. How hypocritical do you think that would be? This is kind of how I see the Democrat party with respect to "helping" minorities. My opinion based on my influences is that the Democrat party basically looks at minorities as people they can exploit and take advantage of for the "greater good." I really think most Democrats, especially white Democrats, believe that blacks and Hispanics are too stupid to make their own decisions and that... not only do they need white "enlightened" leadership to help guide them, but also believe they are a good "tool" for helping them stay in power.
I encourage you to change my mind, I mean that... not being facetious. I'm just not seeing it from the same perspective you have. The Democrats destroy almost everything they touch, and they blame their problems on Republicans, while trying to fix their problems with more of the same things that caused the problem in the first place.
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rinselberg
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MAY 09, 05:42 PM
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I might try to revisit this "D vs R subtext" at some later time.
I want to call attention to this:
| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I know it's not fun, but nothing I said above was factually incorrect. I don't really understand your insinuation that everyone who did bad things as a Democrat was just doing it because it was convenient. That is how most Democrats felt at the time. The ONLY lineage I have in this country (since my dad is from the Netherlands and my mom was born in Argentina), is through my mom's father, who moved to Argentina in the 1960s for work (and then married an Argentine woman). His family goes back to the revolutionary war, and from the beginning of time, they were Whig supporters (as land owners) and then became Republicans. My great, great, great grandfather (and his father) fought for the Missouri 23rd Volunteer Regiment for the Union Army. They were all Republicans, and my family has always been Republican. My grandmother, grandfather, and my mom, and uncle, and aunt, all fled Argentina against the Socialist Peronist Regime... a type of Government that was really popular among Democrats. They all became Republicans. My great grandfather who fought in WW1, he was Republican. My grandfather who fought in WW2, he was Republican. My uncle who fought in Vietnam, he was Republican too. |
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If I were going to provide a counterpart for that, from my own life and experience, it would be this:
I can see how these historical markers and milestones that "82" has laid out, going back to 1970 and before and even as far back as 1850-1899, could have meaning for him in a way that I could never imagine for myself.
"Standing down."[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-09-2021).]
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randye
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MAY 09, 06:00 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by cvxjet:
You know, all throughout my life I have gotten into trouble for being truthful....To bosses, to women, etc. I had a new boss almost every year while working for the Coast Guard, and the pattern was always the same; At first they would think "If he tells me this, then the TRUTH must be really bad!" Then, towards the end of their "reign", they would realize that they could trust me completely. A few months after I retired I talked to a co-worker (civilian) and he told me they had FOUR guys trying to do my job.
Lying is just not part of my make-up.
Also, it always amazes me how brave little people can be when they hide behind their keyboard....
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Throughout my life, I have observed that people that feel compelled to tell stories about how "honest" they are, aren't.[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-09-2021).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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MAY 09, 06:15 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
I might revisit this "D vs R subtext" in some non-trivial way, at some unspecified and unpredictable time.
The 'berg abides . . . for now.
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As they say in the Cialis commercials... "When the moment strikes..."
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cvxjet
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MAY 09, 07:14 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by randye:
Throughout my life, I have observed that people that feel compelled to tell stories about how "honest" they are, aren't.
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That is A-OK with me.....I don't care about fool's opinions.....especially loud mouthed fools.
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randye
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MAY 09, 08:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by cvxjet:
That is A-OK with me.....I don't care about fool's opinions.....especially loud mouthed fools.
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| quote | Originally posted by cvxjet:
As for Randy......You constantly berate anyone who says ANYTHING against your extreme beliefs...."Leftist" is what you call them.......You could call me a lot of things (And sometimes I would probably deserve a lot of bad titles) but Leftist is one that would get you in a lot of trouble if you weren't hiding behind your keyboard.....
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That reads a whole lot like a personal threat.
You want to elaborate on that?[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-09-2021).]
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