Total Deaths vs. COVID-19 (Page 7/11)
theBDub OCT 10, 10:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

And it's interesting the number of people who apparently find your current presence here to be "unacceptable". Even though your long term ratings are very much positive, the ratings since you've returned to the forum (nice to see you back) have taken a drastic turn for the worse. I haven't seen you involved in any tiff. You've simply been supplying data. Is this perhaps a case of the messenger being shot?






Nah, it’s due to the other thread I was in. I came in guns blazing. Randye really riled me up. The recent ignorance of so many people lately has really pissed me off. I still can’t decide if I need to just get over it, or I just need Inauguration Day 😬

And me saying this is conceited and self-absorbed, not the least to say it’s also not politically aligned with the majority on the forum. So I’m sure the arrow will move left again
Patrick OCT 10, 11:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Nah, it’s due to the other thread I was in. I came in guns blazing. Randye really riled me up. The recent ignorance of so many people lately has really pissed me off.



Yes, it never ceases to amaze me the number of people who will believe anything if it's repeated enough times... especially if it's in large fonts and bolded.
maryjane OCT 10, 11:19 PM
I Invented Post-It Notes, Climbed Mt Everest (twice) and killed the last surviving unicorn!
IMSA GT OCT 10, 11:51 PM
Well you know what they say "Don't California my Florida". If you brought that same California liberal mentality to Florida when you moved, that would explain the ratings.
Patrick OCT 11, 12:12 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

I Invented Post-It Notes, Climbed Mt Everest (twice) and killed the last surviving unicorn!



You're on the right track, Don. Just post the same thing several more times now... and then maybe run for office!
theBDub OCT 11, 09:25 AM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Well you know what they say "Don't California my Florida". If you brought that same California liberal mentality to Florida when you moved, that would explain the ratings.



Ahh, that is old. Updated.

I’m not a liberal. In some respects, I actually might be further from that definition than most here. I’m a Libertarian. I never said what I wanted the government to do about the data I’ve shared. I won’t break out every single issue and why I’m voting for who I’m voting for, it’s not related to this thread, but I’ll just say there is only one side that doesn’t believe the numbers and doesn’t believe the science.

And imo, you don’t rate someone on their beliefs. You rate someone based on how they compose themselves. This forum has never been great at separating the person from the political beliefs.
82-T/A [At Work] OCT 11, 11:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

I’ll just say there is only one side that doesn’t believe the numbers and doesn’t believe the science.





I wanted to respond to this honestly... this line above, with my thoughts and why I disagree with this statement.

I used to be a Democrat... I was a Democrat for many years and slowly became a Republican. My parents were Republican, but I actually didn't even really think about this. I was raised to love America, plain and simple. I was raised in the belief that the United States was the greatest country in the world, and we had "the" best form of Government, period. I still 100% wholly believe this.

In any case, I was JUST old enough to vote for Bill Clinton in his reelection campaign... and that was the first president I ever voted for. Although I voted for Bush in 2000, I voted straight-ticket Democrat on everything else. The last time I voted for a Democrat was in 2006 (mid-terms) when I, yet again... still voted straight-ticket Democrat. Ron Klien and Bill Nelson were in my district, along with school board and everything else.

As I've "progressed," I try to consider what I was thinking back then, and the truth is... at the time it made sense. Those were sensible people, and that's why I voted for them. I remember the person who ran against Bill Nelson in 2006, and it was some guy... maybe Mel Martinez? I can't remember... but the guy was corrupt... very corrupt. After Bill Nelson became the "deciding vote" for the ACA, I started voting all Republican. At this point, I vote straight-ticket Republican. So it's been a good 14 years... but I realize that it wasn't me really that left the Democrat party, the Democrat party left me. The party is nothing like it used to be. There is a general hatred of America.

The difference between those of us on the right, libertarians, and Democrats who just haven't woken up yet, is that we all believe the United States is the greatest civilization and Constitution in history ... and that it can always be made better. On the far left however, there is the underlying belief that America was never great, and that it needs to be dismantled and remade into something ideologically radical. The speech by Kennedy, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," would be considered fascist speech today by most Millennials.


Now, what is the point of all this? "Facts" and "Science" are consistent once we know that they are legitimate. The difference is that Democrats (today's version of Democrats) use some version of facts and science to further their ideological agenda. For example... Climate Change. We can all agree on at least a lowest common denominator of facts on this science... that we've at least unequivocally agreed to. We can and should be able to agree on ways to fix this. But the Democrats use Climate Change... not to fix problems with climate, but as a means to enact their ideological goals... such as to push socialism and wealth redistribution. The Climate Accord, among other things, was really just making the United States a checkbook for other countries. The "Carbon Credits" was just a means of welfare from one company to social programs and other means of wealth redistribution. All complete garbage that does nothing to solve the problem, but only furthers a Marxist / Socialist agenda.

You need only look to the various states and how they handled the lockdowns... the liberal states implemented long drawn-out lockdowns that effectively destroyed their state economies... with absolutely no perceivable benefit to the death toll.


Science... anti-vaxxers are by and large on the left, but they say the right doesn't like science. The left politicians are always arguing this, but now that it's politically expedient for them to do so, they're saying you shouldn't get vaccinated and that they don't trust it.

I honestly cannot tell you how much disgust and hatred I have for the left. I legitimately see them as pure evil in this country. I don't hate my fellow Democrats... out of all my friends, the overwhelming vast majority of them are ultra-liberal. I don't really watch news... I haven't watched Fox (since this seems to be the go-to criticism) in almost 5 years. I watch OAN on occasion, but their news is maybe 20% political... the nightly news talks about things unrelated... like the Pikachu Festival in Japan, or whatever. Anyway, I believe most Democrats to be uninformed about most things, such as the way economies work, or even basic human needs / desires... that you can simply eliminate meritocracy and pay everyone the same and that great things will just happen. Though... seems pointless to bring that up, because it seems both Republicans (Trump) and Democrats all seem to believe MMT is the way of the future... you just print money to pay off debt... ridiculous.


Anyway, as I've said many times before. I don't think Clinton, Reagan, Obama, Biden, or anyone else would have handled things any differently... really any better. Every president would have (in hind-sight, a bad decision) gone into complete lock-down, and every president would have lifted restrictions on these lock-downs. What is obvious to me, and just like I've been saying in my long-ass diatribe above... the only reason why this death toll is important, is because Democrats are using it for political gain. They don't actually care what the number is... they only care that they can use it to get Trump out of office. That tells me all I need to know about the personality of the left...


Boondawg OCT 11, 11:46 AM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

I’m not a liberal. ...

And imo, you don’t rate someone on their beliefs. You rate someone based on how they compose themselves. This forum has never been great at separating the person from the political beliefs.



In my experience here, you are politically what someone sez you are.
Somehow that makes you easier to bury.

I used to believe the attitude I was brought up on that as fellow Americans, we were all in this together. We may have differences, but working together despite of them is what made us great.

But now I know each side absolutely hates each other, and would rather the other side just up and disappear altogether.
Each side can no longer see the value of having the 2 sides.

Ratings: My experience is it’s a “friend or enemy” button based solely on your personal choices & opinions.
It has absolutely nothing to do with ones ability to be civil.

I have actually seen some here fight tooth-&-nail against the simple concept of civility like it was communism or something.

I love the new system Cliff has put in place against personal attacks & other moronic instabilities puked fourth solely for the thrill of unnessary cruelty.

It has really cut-down on the childish personal attacks from a few blow-hard bullies with more mouth than brains.

Including me!

Although I do have to still constantly remind some here that for whatever silly reason they have for not liking me or my opinions to simply not click on me.

It reminds me of those religious zealots who beat the living snot out of their own backs with all manor of sharp items attached to a whip.

I mean, they must be getting something out of it, right?

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 10-11-2020).]

maryjane OCT 12, 11:27 AM

quote
What is obvious to me, and just like I've been saying in my long-ass diatribe above... the only reason why this death toll is important, is because Democrats are using it for political gain. They don't actually care what the number is... they only care that they can use it to get Trump out of office. That tells me all I need to know about the personality of the left...


Another unproven allegation.

There is not and never has been a national plan or protocol for dealing with Covid19 and that, falls squarely on the shoulders of the oval office.

It is politicised for sure, beginning with "It's just one guy form China it's under control totally" (President Trump in January)
Against all advise from leading medical authorities, he continued to publicly downplay the seriousness of the pandemtic and continued thru May of pressuring governors to reopen their states presumably because he hinged re-election chances on a vibrant economy.

A new pathogen, with little or no natural immunity, that very little was known about should have raised huge concerns from the federal govt, instead, the burden was placed upon the governors of 50 individual states and we ended up with a hodge podge of 50 different protocols that resulted in 200,000 deaths.

His most recent rationalization for all that was "to curtail or limit panic".

NOTHING causes panic more than the unknown and nothing speaks louder than the silent voices of 200,000+ dead people.
I followed this from the very beginning (even before I started the Covid19 first thread here in OT) In my mind, it was going to be serious and eventually would be here in the US and I thought to myself "This, is where Donald Trump is going to LEAD, where he is really going to shine" .

I will vote for him again, but I am sorely disappointed in his huge lack of leadership in this matter.
The buck stops with and at that fancy chair in the oval office.

Here’s what the president said in public remarks, interviews and tweets from Jan. 22 to March 10 -– one day before the World Health Organization declared the global outbreak a pandemic.

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.

Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.

Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)

Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.

Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.

Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.

Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.

Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.

March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.

March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.

A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.

It's gone downhill from there as have his re-election chances. He may yet eke out a victory but if not, he alone is at fault.


Boondawg OCT 12, 12:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

I will vote for him again, but I am sorely disappointed in his huge lack of leadership in this matter.



For the love of God, why?

Let’s pretend for a second that his failure in dealing with this pandemic is his only fault, in-office.

Isn’t that enough?
His ineptitude killed people needlessly.

The truth is, he is incapable of caring about anyone or anything other than himself.

THAT is not the mark of a leader.
That’s not even the mark of a decent human being.

I don’t get it.