Is Social Justice a disease? (Page 5/21)
theBDub JAN 08, 12:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


Any comments on what I said about post modernism, socialism, communism and where that leads?



Sorry, yes, got caught up in the rest.

I see the link, absolutely. That's why I think we have to tread carefully with decisions we make. In my opinion, it's vital to correct the wrongs of yesterday that are still impacting today, but also vital that we don't repeat the very same behavior in the opposite direction today. When I say I don't have a solution, I mean it.

I'm a free-market, fully capitalist, Libertarian. In my opinion, any Social Justice implementations need to come from the private sector as a response to consumers and employees deciding it's important to them, except where government is the cause, which is fairly limited I think at this point.
2.5 JAN 08, 12:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Sorry, yes, got caught up in the rest.

I see the link, absolutely. That's why I think we have to tread carefully with decisions we make. In my opinion, it's vital to correct the wrongs of yesterday that are still impacting today, but also vital that we don't repeat the very same behavior in the opposite direction today. When I say I don't have a solution, I mean it.

I'm a free-market, fully capitalist, Libertarian. In my opinion, any Social Justice implementations need to come from the private sector as a response to consumers and employees deciding it's important to them, except where government is the cause, which is fairly limited I think at this point.



Thanks again for an honest opinon.
It seems many companies are jumping full in anyway, maybe there will be backlash, or failure for not hiring the most qualified and the market will even it self out. But if it works like socialism, it wont. Those who disagree with social justice will be punished, and not by a free market. The successful would support the unsuccessful until the entire house of cards cannot hold itself up any longer.

One of the things I think we disagree on is that equity of outcome is achievable, or should be, which is what seems to be "the" way to "correct the wrongs of yesterday".
theBDub JAN 08, 12:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


One of the things I think we disagree on is that equity of outcome is achievable, or should be, which is what seems to be "the" way to "correct the wrongs of yesterday".



No, I don't want equity of outcome.

I want equity of opportunity, which we don't have due to a myriad of factors that we can never, and should never fully control. But if you can get closer, then that's progress, and I do think there is room for that progress without getting into socialist territory. What someone does with that opportunity is entirely on them. I do not want equity of outcome.
2.5 JAN 08, 01:15 PM
Good to hear. Thats what hiring and firing based on race is trying to do. I agree hiring and firing based on race is not wanted. What stinks is they now make people do it.

As for getting too close to socialist territory, I think we already went too far. Not just in what we do but what we teach.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-08-2021).]

maryjane JAN 08, 01:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:


Due to where I sit, I have had to learn a lot about this. It structures a company’s goals and HR approach. Of course it is relevant to everyone, but not everyone has had to have so much training. Don’t mistake my comment.


Oh, there was no mistaking it, it came across loud and clear.
You aren't nearly the 1st person to climb the ladder and join the group that believes they see things so much more clearly than the world below due to the lofty heights where the air is so much more clear and cool.

I think it was 1972 when as a senior enlisted in my dept I was asked (not that I had a choice) to help write what was then called a Race Relations Directive for the Navy base near Memphis Tenn. (you were probably srtill in knee pants). I found the whole endeavor to be distasteful tho the Lt Cmdr thought the finished product wonderful right up until the upper muky mucks (junior grade officers looking for a feather to add to their caps) altered it so much the enlisted men of all races and color all but refused to attend it.
That was one of my first experiences of seeing what happens when people look at the world as they are and not as it is. (I was 22)

It was then, and still is elitism, and it began long long before that.
"We must convert these ignorant unwashed savages to live, work, act, speak and think as we do"

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-08-2021).]

williegoat JAN 08, 02:17 PM
When I made the transition into management, I was surprised and disappointed at how immature, ill-informed and arrogant the "office staff" was. I will always have more respect for the guys who do the actual work.

In my younger days, most who were in management worked their way up. They knew the industry (lumber, in my case) "soup to nuts". Sometime in the eighties or nineties, much of the old guard was replaced by educated pencil pushers, wannabe yuppies.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-08-2021).]

theBDub JAN 08, 02:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Oh, there was no mistaking it, it came across loud and clear.




Well, I didn’t remotely mean it that way. It would have been better just to say “through my work,” I guess. I can’t change how you interpreted it, though I figured you may have known me a bit better.
maryjane JAN 08, 07:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:


Well, I didn’t remotely mean it that way. It would have been better just to say “through my work,” I guess. I can’t change how you interpreted it, though I figured you may have known me a bit better.


Used to.

I read today, that the term "Third World" is offensive and is to be avoided in all cases. "There is no third world.. only the oppressors and the oppressed!".
And no, can't use 'resource deficit nations' either, as that implies the people of that nation are 'less' than everywhere else.
I wonder who 'up at the top' in the clear cool air came up with those pearls of wisdom?
randye JAN 08, 09:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:


I just work relatively high up in Corporate America, where Social Justice is extremely relevant.




No you don't and no it isn't.

IF you were ever sufficiently "high up in Corporate America" (sic) YOU wouldn't be so absorbed in silly, ancillary, nonsense that ISN'T the goal or "extremely relevant" to "corporate America" or anyone in senior management, control or ownership.

What YOU claim to be "extremely relevant" is mostly assigned to lower level functionaries and HR managers (that, purposefully, is a position now inhabited by young SJW's that are hired to fill their role of keeping equal opportunity nuisance lawsuits away from the corporation while actual business is conducted by the productive people of the company.)

I suspect that you really have no clue what is actually "extremely relevant" to corporate America.

By the way your capitalizing "Corporate America" (sic) is both unimpressive, unconvincing, and indicative of someone who isn't as "relatively high up" as he thinks he is or is attempting to convince others he is.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-08-2021).]

MidEngineManiac JAN 08, 09:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:


No, I don't want equity of outcome.

I want equity of opportunity, which we don't have due to a myriad of factors that we can never, and should never fully control. But if you can get closer, then that's progress, and I do think there is room for that progress without getting into socialist territory. What someone does with that opportunity is entirely on them. I do not want equity of outcome.



I don't EVER want equality of opportunity.

I don't want the blind or downs syndrome crawling into cockpits. I don't want aids or herpes hookers at brothels. I sure as hell NEVER want to hear the unable struggling to play a screaching cat <err, I mean fiddle> and I sure as **** do not ever want a taxi driver with direaha !!!!!

People do not get the same opportunities. Based on birth, location, physical condition, mental ability, and a myriad of other factors. Thats life. Its not fair.

Get used to it.

Its long past time to get rid of this liberal "equality" bullshit, take off the rose glasses and see life for what it is.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-08-2021).]