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| The narrative that the Capitol protest was a “deadly insurrection” is falling apart (Page 43/110) |
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JUL 29, 01:53 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Details matter. Ashli was attempting to gain access to a secure area of the capitol. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Curious, how far should the police have let these rioters get into the capitol before they DID use deadly force?
But I get it, she's your martyr. Your simultaneously arguing she was murdered while also claiming it wasn't deadly. The fact that you can't see how ridiculous of an argument this is makes everything else moot. |
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Those are alot of words put in my mouth, I'm not sure whose words they are.
You cite one person, one person you blame as a perpetrator who "played stupid games, won stupid prizes".
What else have you got?
Also any comebacks for the posts in the first page of the thread?
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williegoat
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JUL 29, 02:04 PM
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Insurrection today, happening now in the U.S. House of Representatives!
Thi s is a developing story![This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 07-29-2021).]
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Rickady88GT
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JUL 29, 02:34 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Details matter. Ashli was attempting to gain access to a secure area of the capitol. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Of multiple Officers who were there, only one used deadly force, the others obviously felt the use of deadly force was not required. BUT, if she had it coming, then by all means follow policies and procedures.
At this point in time, I am.not convinced deadly force was required.
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Curious, how far should the police have let these rioters get into the capitol before they DID use deadly force?
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Well, I can't answer that because I am not even familiar with the layout of the building or the training, policies and procedures. She was unarmed, that is kinda a big deal,...wouldn't you say?
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But I get it, she's your martyr. Your simultaneously arguing she was murdered while also claiming it wasn't deadly. The fact that you can't see how ridiculous of an argument this is makes everything else moot. |
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This is your ridiculous argument, not mine and to my knowledge nobody has said in this thread that they support the trespassing? So by all means please do name names, I want to know who is arguing in favor of this point?
Again you assume that you know what people think and believe, that all of "you Trumpers" are all alike. This as I already pointed out is untrue.
I have said several times that the trespassing was incredibly stupid,.....so yah that makes her a martyr? In your eyes she is definitely an anti-martyr. A person you hang on the necks of people you want to label. A person you paint half the Country as being alike. A person so conveniently available to identify "the other side".
But I get it, you and "your side" would rather fume and spew emotional shots from the hip, rather than deal in facts. You are doing exactly what you accuse "Trumpers" of doing, spouting off with emotional outbursts lacking truth and facts, full of accusations blindly cast over a group of people you don't even know.
So before you just dismiss this reply, prove me wrong by answering my questions and provide some type of evidence to your claims. Throughout this last 2 pages I asked a few questions and responses to your comments and your only reply is emotional.
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randye
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JUL 29, 05:51 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
... but Ashli died as a DIRECT result of being in the capitol attempting to gain entry to a secure area. . . |
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WRONG
I see you're trying for the Olympic Gold Medal of CAUSATION CONFLATION known "fondly" as: Non Causa Pro Causa
The undisputed fact is that a LOT of other people were in the capitol and entered restricted areas that day and they are obviously NOT DEAD.
Ashli Babbitt died "as a DIRECT result" of being ambushed and murdered by A COWARDLY, INCOMPETENT, DEMORAT
NOBODY ELSE shot anyone else that day....Just him.
NOBODY ELSE killed anyone else that day....Just him.
NONE of the hundreds of other police officers shot or killed anyone that day.
Once again your sophomoric 'splaining vividly demonstrates your Leftist desperation to create a narrative that isn't truthful or factual:
| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Imagine someone barging into a families home and killing one of the parents but leaving two kids and the other parent. I'd laugh myself to death seeing them argue at court. . . "Your honor, I only killed ONE of them so it wasn't deadly. . . |
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That wasn't what happened on January 6, 2021 at the Capitol though.
There aren't even any remote similarities to your hypothetical little fable.
NONE of the rioters killed anyone.
Although given your demonstrated propensity for ridiculous, hyperbolic, narratives, logical errors and fallacies and knowing that you'll likely default to the equally absurd "you / they made me do it" argument fallacy, I'll go ahead and ask you this question:
IF the events on January 6. 2021 were "deadly" as you continue to insist, then WHO made it "deadly"?
(Notably, we have already established that your specious claim of "insurrection" is thoroughly debunked)[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-30-2021).]
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randye
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JUL 29, 08:58 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Well, I can't answer that because I am not even familiar with the layout of the building or the training, policies and procedures. She was unarmed, that is kinda a big deal,...wouldn't you say?
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You know, you have indirectly raised a very interesting point.
The claim that Ashli Babbit was killed while attempting to enter "a secure area" certainly bears a bit of examination.
Has anyone seen or heard any objective, factual, evidence that:
1. The area she was attempting to enter was actually an official, designated, "secure area" ?
2. That IF such "secure areas" exist then what specific federal law makes them so designated?
3. That any constructive notice was given that it was a "secure area"?
4. That deadly force was legally authorized to prevent entry into the "secure area"?
5. That IF such deadly force was authorized, what specific federal law makes it authorized?
6. That any constructive notice was given that deadly force was authorized?
7. That any lawful order by anyone with such authority was issued to use deadly force against anyone attempting to enter a "secure area"?
8. .... And most importantly....was Ashli Babbit ever given any warning whatsoever about the use of deadly force?
..............................................................................
Perhaps some "Random" Leftist, possessed of "unique evidence" will "enlighten" us all........or not.[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-30-2021).]
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Rickady88GT
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JUL 29, 09:26 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by randye:
You know, you have indirectly raised a very interesting point.
The claim that Ashli Babbit was killed while attempting to enter "a secure area" certainly bears a bit of examination.
Has anyone seen or heard any objective, factual, evidence that:
1. The area she was attempting to enter was actually an official, designated, "secure area" ?
2. That IF such "secure areas" exist then what specific federal law makes them so designated?
3. That any constructive notice was given that it was a "secure area"?
4. That deadly force was legally authorized to prevent entry into the "secure area"?
5. That IF such deadly force was authorized, what specific federal law makes it authorized?
6. That any constructive notice was given that deadly force was authorized?
7. That any lawful order by anyone with such authority was issued to use deadly force against anyone attempting to enter a "secure area"?
* .... And most importantly....was Ashli Babbit ever given any warning whatsoever about the use of deadly force?
..............................................................................
Perhaps some "Random" Leftist, possessed of "unique evidence" will "enlighten" us all........or not.
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Very good points and questions.
Opinions that I have heard about this topic seem to automatically assume that getting to close to Politicians is a death sentence, or a shoot on sight situation, without even asking if this is the case. So are Politicians so much above the value of the citizens that they are guarded by a "shoot at will" clause?
Out here in California, VERY SPECIFIC conditions need to exist before deadly force can be used. And I will also add that those conditions are stricter for Law Enforcement than for the average Citizens.[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 07-29-2021).]
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Rickady88GT
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JUL 29, 09:37 PM
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I do want to add to this topic a real and serious bit of advice, unrelated but in a way related to the topic. If you are going to carry a firearm for self defense GET INSURANCE.
This Capitol Police Officer who shot an unarmed woman on Jan6 has insurance through his employer and with that a team of lawyers to argue for him in court. A "self defense" shooting is VERY LIKELY to cause substantial monetary, emotional and legal trauma for the person who used a gun,....EVEN if nobody dies. Collateral damage to property is a VERY likely accurance.
Stay safe and stay protected.
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randye
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JUL 29, 10:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Out here in California, VERY SPECIFIC conditions need to exist before deadly force can be used. And I will also add that those conditions are stricter for Law Enforcement than for the average Citizens.
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Whether it's the "People's Republik of Kalifornia", inside the U.S. Capitol building or anywhere else in this country, government can't just arbitrarily decide one day that somewhere is "a secure area" and then KILL anyone that crosses their imaginary line.
Even the military has to designate areas well in advance and have that approved by Congress and THEN they also must make constructive notice by way of prominent WARNING SIGNS that are conspicuously posted AND those signs cite the specific US CODE, section and subsection that makes the use of deadly force lawful....AND EVEN THEN procedures and regulations specify that arrest should be the first tactic , NOT GUNFIRE.
Only in the sick, twisted, head of a LEFTIST is the ambush and murder of Ashli Babbit "justified".[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-29-2021).]
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Rickady88GT
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JUL 29, 11:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by randye:
Whether it's the "People's Republik of Kalifornia", inside the U.S. Capitol building or anywhere else in this country, government can't just arbitrarily decide one day that somewhere is "a secure area" and then KILL anyone that crosses their imaginary line.
Even the military has to designate areas well in advance and have that approved by Congress and THEN they also must make constructive notice by way of prominent WARNING SIGNS that are conspicuously posted AND those signs cite the specific US CODE, section and subsection that makes the use of deadly force lawful....AND EVEN THEN procedures and regulations specify that arrest should be the first tactic , NOT GUNFIRE.
Only in the sick, twisted, head of a LEFTIST is the ambush and murder of Ashli Babbit "justified".
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This is a good point.
So do you know where the internal investigation is at this point. A deadly use of force investigation?
This seems like to much of a high profile case to be clean cut and over with?
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randye
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JUL 30, 12:16 AM
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As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Insurrection or sedition or even homicide as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Advocating overthrow of Government (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Threatening government officials of the United States (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 535 individuals], (<1.7 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (6.5 %) out of the 535 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 3 individuals, (0.5 %) out of the 535 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 20 individuals, (3.7 %) out of the 535 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 20 individuals, (<0.06 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
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