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| The narrative that the Capitol protest was a “deadly insurrection” is falling apart (Page 41/110) |
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2.5
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JUL 28, 12:31 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
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That even after all this, a lot of Trump supporters still believe the election was stolen and want to excuse the behavior of those who stormed the capitol.
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You seem to be talking about why, not what. But also time frames will matter, who "knows" what and when in your scenarios.
Politicians lie, yes all sides do, so does the media. I'm sure there are people who justify those who entered the capitol building. There are also those who justify the many many protestors who did not.
The narrative that the Capitol protest was a “deadly insurrection” is falling apart.
This is the thread title, and what the thread is originally about, and many subsequest reply posts on the first page.
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rinselberg
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JUL 28, 02:52 PM
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| quote | What should the January 6th incident at the U.S. Capitol be called?
A large majority (72%) of the American public feels “riot” is an appropriate descriptor. Over half (56%) say it is appropriate to refer to it as an “insurrection.” Just 33%, though, say calling it a “legitimate protest” is appropriate.
“Riot” receives the most cross-partisan approval – 87% of Democrats, 67% of independents, and 62% of Republicans say the word is an apt description – but there is a wide gap for applying “insurrection” to the event – ranging from 85% of Democrats to 48% of independents and just 33% of Republicans who feel the term is appropriate.
Conversely, 47% of Republicans and 39% of independents would call the incident a “legitimate protest,” although only 13% of Democrats accept that characterization. |
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Monmouth University Polling Institute; June 17, 2021.
https://www.monmouth.edu/po...mouthpoll_us_061721/[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-28-2021).]
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williegoat
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JUL 28, 03:15 PM
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Words have specific meanings, definitions which can be found in various dictionaries. They are not subject to public opinion polls.
Tens of thousands attended a rally, a "legitimate protest".
A few hundred participated in a "riot", with injury and destruction of property.
No one committed "insurrection".
Polls suggest that many Americans believe Joe Biden is incompetent. That does not make it so.
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RandomTask
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JUL 28, 04:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 2.5:
You seem to be talking about why, not what. But also time frames will matter, who "knows" what and when in your scenarios.
Politicians lie, yes all sides do, so does the media. I'm sure there are people who justify those who entered the capitol building. There are also those who justify the many many protestors who did not.
The narrative that the Capitol protest was a “deadly insurrection” is falling apart.
This is the thread title, and what the thread is originally about, and many subsequest reply posts on the first page.
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We've established why they were there, they didn't accept the results of the election; ie "stop the steal".
So let's take your words, "deadly insurrection"
So you don't have to waste your time excusing all five deaths, we'll go with the easy one. Ashli Babbit is dead, ergo deadly. You can't argue that.
Only word left is "insurrection". . . from the meriam webster "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government"
They were rebelling (ie revolting) against the lawfully establish government. They didn't want the election results certified, aka "stop the steal". When Pence did certify, they then called for his head. They did so forcibly, beating officers ruthlessly for their cause.
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williegoat
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JUL 28, 04:51 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Only word left is "insurrection". . . from the meriam webster "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government"
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Using that definition, this was also an insurrection in the Capitol building.
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rinselberg
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JUL 28, 05:44 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Words have specific meanings, definitions which can be found in various dictionaries. They are not subject to public opinion polls.
Tens of thousands attended a rally, a "legitimate protest".
A few hundred participated in a "riot", with injury and destruction of property.
No one committed "insurrection".
Polls suggest that many Americans believe Joe Biden is incompetent. That does not make it so. |
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"The narrative . . ."
That's how "2.5" set up this thread.
No one has yet been indicted on a charge of "Insurrection." I think it's unlikely that anyone will ever be indicted on a charge of "Insurrection." But I think the "narrative" is something else. The narrative is not defined or constrained by any of the exact legal considerations that are in play. The narrative is about what people think about it when they are not thinking like lawyers in court.
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randye
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JUL 28, 06:12 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by rinselberg:
"The narrative . . ."
The narrative is not defined or constrained by any of the exact legal considerations that are in play. The narrative is about what people think about it when they are not thinking like lawyers in court.
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THAT is why you LEFTISTS absolutely LOVE narratives.
They are not defined or constrained.
Not defined or constrained by objective FACT
Not defined or constrained by REALITY
Not defined or constrained by TRUTH
The "narrative" is A story........It isn't THE story.
The narrative lives where LEFTISTS live:
In the realm of OPINIONS and FEELINGS.
| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Words have specific meanings, definitions which can be found in various dictionaries. They are not subject to public opinion polls.
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 [This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-28-2021).]
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Rickady88GT
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JUL 28, 06:54 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
You forget who you're talking with. -Most- Trumpers are capable of instantly rejecting reality. If it doesn't suit their narrative, they dismiss it. Trump has been nurturing this behavior forever, eg "Fake News!"
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Most "Trumpers" are people like you and I who have opinions. Some express those opinions more effectively than others and most do not fit into a one size fits all box. Saying they ignore fact is simply just your opinion and not representative of fact. IF what you say is true, than millions of "Trumpers" would have been in town that day. Of the 30k estimated crowd (according to some sources) less than 600 were charged with a crime. Some people say up to 2,000 showed up to riot? If this is true your "most Trumpers" is WAY off because of the 10's of millions that voted for him only 500 or so got charged for being incredibly stupid.
It's this type of exaggeration that takes away credibility.
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It's literally on camera of officers getting beaten. . . "meh, that's peaceful protest!"
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Nobody said it was just a peaceful protest, at least not that I am aware of. Randye has said "mostly peaceful" because that is the exact language used by the mainstream media to describe antifa blm " protests". We all know that blm antifa have been and still are a violent group.
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Officers are testifying what they dealt with. . "Oh, they're a bunch of liars!" Trumpers are "thin blue line" until they want to break the law without consequences, then it's "**** the cops!" It's the same way they're "Pro-military" until tons of military top brass speak out against trumps temperament. . . then "**** those traitors!." It shows their care of someone is directly linked to their political value.
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I am sure you would agree that the vast majority of average Americans think bad cops are a blight on society and some, if not most would say "f-ck them". "Trumpers and leftist do have some things in common and some do take things to extremes.
I do not believe the testimony was honest, neutral or genuine. I believe it was scripted and coached long before this circus. I also believe the people selected were chosen because of political bias and motives.
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randye
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JUL 28, 07:34 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Only word left is "insurrection". . . from the meriam webster "an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government"
They were rebelling (ie revolting) against the lawfully establish government.
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And THAT is where your sophomoric "splaining" and hyperbolic rhetoric completely falls apart.
Since you have a newfound fondness for dictionary definitions, by all means, let's go there:
Even you were able to properly ascertain and state for us that the motivation of the people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL rally that day was ,
"Stop The Steal" and that they desired that the certification of the November vote be forestalled.
| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
They didn't want the election results certified, aka "stop the steal".
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I have neither seen nor heard any credible evidence that the people attending that day in January ever expressed a desire to renounce their allegiance to the United States OR any intent to "overthrow" the entire United States government.
IF you uniquely possess factual evidence to the contrary then present it.
What we DO know for a fact absolute is that DEMORATS hold the singular "distinction" of being THE political party of REVOLT, rebellion and insurrection in the United States. DEMORATS renounced allegiance to the United States and mounted a rebellion and insurrection that lasted for 4 years and cost millions of American lives.
It was a "little thing" called the American Civil War... Perhaps you might have heard of it?
| quote | Originally posted by RandomTask:
Ashli Babbit is dead, ergo deadly. You can't argue that.
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It's always cute when Leftists try to tell people what they can and cannot discuss or debate.
Such attempts to control the narrative and frame the argument are always best ignored by rational people.
Reliable survivor accounts tell us that the ship's orchestra on the Titanic played on as the ship sank.
By your "reasoning" , we are justified in calling the sinking of the Titanic "musical".[This message has been edited by randye (edited 07-29-2021).]
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randye
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JUL 28, 08:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Randye has said "mostly peaceful" because that is the exact language used by the mainstream media to describe antifa blm " protests". We all know that blm antifa have been and still are a violent group.
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I say that it was a MOSTLY PEACEFUL event because IT WAS.
A very small percentage of the people attending the rally that day have been arrested and charged with a crime.
That percentage of people arrested is likely MUCH smaller than what I have been posting because, although there is very good reason to believe that the crowd was significantly larger that day, the only "official" estimate of the crowd comes from the National Park Service that only records that they "permitted" a gathering of 30,000 people on the mall that day.
Even using that "diminutive" 30,000 number it is obvious that only a tiny fraction of people have been arrested and charged with any crime, ergo the MOSTLY PEACEFUL description is accurate and apt.
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