Dam, Oroville (Page 4/6)
cvxjet JUN 18, 05:58 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Which would seem to reinforce my ongoing assertion that the California electrical grid is rickety as hell, even now.
I wonder what the effect will be when they hang a few million electric car charging stations off of the end.

I'm thinking that, not only will Californians get to sit home in the heat, in the dark, now they won't even be able to leave, because their cars will be dead, with no way to charge them.
Going forward, this is going to be a sh!t-show of the largest magnitude.



Well...I guess CA could take some lessons from Texas on their electrical grid...........
Raydar JUN 18, 07:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Well...I guess CA could take some lessons from Texas on their electrical grid...........



I suspect the outcome may be similar. The difference is, Texas is isolated and limited because their utility industry wants it that way.

Most every other electric utility in the country has a method of buying electricity capacity from "off system". Georgia and Alabama can buy or sell electricity from/to Florida, South Carolina, and TVA. Mississippi can buy/sell from/to Entergy or other entities. There are interconnections all over the grid called "tie lines" that allow just these scenarios. Everyone predicts their generation capacity, and their projected requirements, and makes arrangements accordingly. It's carefully choreographed. But if the SHTF, I'm pretty sure that emergency measures can be implemented fairly quickly.
Texas, from what I've heard, probably only has one or two tie lines. Not nearly enough to support them, if sh!t gets real.
I don't like Federal intervention any more than the next person, but it would appear that there are trade-offs and advantages. NERC is all about reliability, above all else. I'm just a telecom guy, and I get exposed to this stuff on a daily basis. In the years since 9/11, and especially in the past five years, security and reliability have gained real ground, in the grand scheme of things.

California, OTOH, is hampered largely because of environmental restrictions imposed by their own government. They can't clear the vegetation beneath the transmission lines.
Then, when the demand gets great, and a lot of current is flowing, the lines get hot. Then they sag into the trees, and start fires. (Seriously.. That's how it works. Electricity conduction makes heat. This on top of the already high ambient temperature. Heat makes the conductors sag - due to expansion, and due to elasticity and their own weight.)
Lots of the problems are undoubtedly caused by long overdue maintenance issues. (It would appear that they've been financially strapped for a while. Preventative maintenance is usually the first thing that gets postponed.)

Merely an observation.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-18-2021).]

randye JUN 18, 11:37 PM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Going forward, this is going to be a sh!t-show of the largest magnitude.





I don't know of another state in the union that continually staggers from disaster to disaster like California does, with such a large number of them self-inflicted by stupid choices driven by Leftist ideology.
IMSA GT JUN 19, 12:03 AM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

California, OTOH, is hampered largely because of environmental restrictions imposed by their own government. They can't clear the vegetation beneath the transmission lines.
Then, when the demand gets great, and a lot of current is flowing, the lines get hot. Then they sag into the trees, and start fires. (Seriously.. That's how it works. Electricity conduction makes heat. This on top of the already high ambient temperature. Heat makes the conductors sag - due to expansion, and due to elasticity and their own weight.)
Lots of the problems are undoubtedly caused by long overdue maintenance issues. (It would appear that they've been financially strapped for a while. Preventative maintenance is usually the first thing that gets postponed.)

Merely an observation.




There are big changes that have been executed by our CEO at PG&E. We are buying solar energy from Cal Flats and routing it to multiple substations, we just installed one of many battery storage facilities in a joint project with Tesla, and we have about 50 hydro plants in the mountains that create electricity for almost all of our substations throughout California. The brush clearing and tree trimming is actually happening all over Northern California. It was part of the court proceedings to where basically, we HAVE to cut the trees whether people like it or not. Right now we are in a huge heat wave with temperatures ranging from 104-112 degrees over the next 2 weeks. Our grid has been slightly strained during the heat wave and no power has been shut off due to any type of overload. As of right now, we have no plans on rolling blackouts. So far, so good.
Notorio JUN 19, 12:04 AM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Which would seem to reinforce my ongoing assertion that the California electrical grid is rickety as hell, even now.
I wonder what the effect will be when they hang a few million electric car charging stations off of the end ...




Today I noticed 7 or so Tesla charging stations suddenly appear at a relatively new Gas Station near the freeway. There's nothing to do in that area except perhaps watch the traffic going by. It made me wonder what electric car owner would really use a station like that, with nothing to do, when they could just go a few more miles and visit the charging stations at the Mall. Makes no sense to me but it sure looks expensive. Who is paying for this?
rinselberg JUN 19, 02:47 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:
Today I noticed 7 or so Tesla charging stations suddenly appear at a relatively new Gas Station near the freeway. There's nothing to do in that area except perhaps watch the traffic going by. It made me wonder what electric car owner would really use a station like that, with nothing to do, when they could just go a few more miles and visit the charging stations at the Mall. Makes no sense to me but it sure looks expensive. Who is paying for this?


It won't be long before that's a new town center, as developments spring up all around these new EV charging stations.

"If you build it, they will come."
IMSA GT JUN 19, 10:27 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Who is paying for this?



Tesla pays for all charging stations that are installed. The only time the property owner has to partially pay is if they request Tesla install them in an area where Tesla has not determined they are needed.
Raydar JUN 19, 08:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
There are big changes that have been executed by our CEO at PG&E. We are buying solar energy from Cal Flats and routing it to multiple substations, we just installed one of many battery storage facilities in a joint project with Tesla, and we have about 50 hydro plants in the mountains that create electricity for almost all of our substations throughout California. The brush clearing and tree trimming is actually happening all over Northern California. It was part of the court proceedings to where basically, we HAVE to cut the trees whether people like it or not. Right now we are in a huge heat wave with temperatures ranging from 104-112 degrees over the next 2 weeks. Our grid has been slightly strained during the heat wave and no power has been shut off due to any type of overload. As of right now, we have no plans on rolling blackouts. So far, so good.



Slightly strained?! That's it? Excellent! Good show! (Everybody's grid is "slightly strained" from time to time, I would think.)
I didn't realize (or at least forgot) that you worked for PG&E. I applaud this progress, and I hope it continues.
Truthfully, I figured that the legislators would have the state hamstrung to a fare-thee-well, for the long term. I'm glad I'm wrong.

So... what is the projected additional load for a s___load of charging stations? And, more importantly, are you going to be ready?
I sincerely hope so. I don't want CA to fail but, based upon previous events, I sort of anticipated it. This gives me some hope that I'm wrong.
Edit - Thanks for jumping in.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-19-2021).]

IMSA GT JUN 20, 12:59 AM

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
So... what is the projected additional load for a s___load of charging stations? And, more importantly, are you going to be ready?
I sincerely hope so. I don't want CA to fail but, based upon previous events, I sort of anticipated it. This gives me some hope that I'm wrong.
Edit - Thanks for jumping in.




I mentioned about our partnership with Tesla, here is the information on our first battery storage venture. Moss Landing is on the coast near Monterey California. There is basic information in the last paragraphs. I think in certain areas, the battery storage units could actually offset the charging station concerns as well as assist with feeding the grid at peak hours.
https://www.tesmanian.com/b...es-stunning-progress

We actually have a new CEO that comes from Consumers Energy in Michigan. She has rotated this company 180 degrees in the right direction compared to the last 2 CEO's. She also has a great track record and as a bonus to us car guys, she worked for GM as a plant manager from 1990-2005.
cliffw JUN 20, 08:37 AM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
Well...I guess CA could take some lessons from Texas on their electrical grid...........



Let me fix that for you.


quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
Well...I guess CA should take some lessons from Texas on their electrical grid...........



Texas had ONE issue during an unprecedented Global Warming Ice Age. Did 'ja know ..., we had (I think it was three) coal powered generation stations the were not in use, have not been in use, because of tree hugging greenies from places like Kalifornia.