Establish a sustainable presence on the moon... (Page 3/4)
Rickady88GT DEC 13, 09:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


All that though to say... if we don't build a sustainable presence on the Moon and Mars... the Chinese will, and they'll have furthered their agenda both scientifically, and socially with propaganda.



Propaganda is all it is.
America can take any part of the Moon that we want IF China finds a reason to be there. We should not fool ourselves or pretend that we can't catch up to another Country's advancements or technology. After all, let's not fool ourselves, China and Russia and ANY other Countries wanting our technology already has it, or is building up the payment to obtain it. Our Government is so full of spies and "leaks" that we can't possibly keep up with plugging holes. We have NOTHING that our competitors can't take from us. LET THEM pay for it for once. Then WE can profit from it.
The only thing that comes from the Moon is being able to say "We did it first". Big freaking deal. America just wants it cheap. The biggest looser is the idiots that don't keep the technology and secrets away from the competitors.
maryjane DEC 13, 09:34 PM
Much of what you said was also probably said and thought back in the day when all there was of the world was the Old World and Columbus had not yet sailed the ocean blue. It didn't take the naysayers long to change their mind tho.
Rickady88GT DEC 13, 10:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Much of what you said was also probably said and thought back in the day when all there was of the world was the Old World and Columbus had not yet sailed the ocean blue. It didn't take the naysayers long to change their mind tho.



Tell that to the American Military system and political system for the last 10 years. Actually Russia and China had been steeling our technology for as long as I have been alive.
Rickady88GT DEC 13, 10:12 PM
NASA has NOTHING that belongs to America EVEN WITH our investment of blood sweat and treasure.
maryjane DEC 13, 10:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Tell that to the American Military system and political system for the last 10 years. Actually Russia and China had been steeling our technology for as long as I have been alive.


And we were stealing theirs for a lot longer than I've been alive. Who do you think invented gunpowder, movable print printing, paper, rockets and hundreds of other things us ''Mericuns" take for granted?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...f_Chinese_inventions

(They didn't invent Chinese checkers tho, or fortune cookies)


I assume you never use any GPS devices, satellite TV, Sat internet, or radio, since none of those would be operating without NASA.

And of course, none of the emergency and 1st responder sat com system would work or even be in existence if not for NASA and the space program.

Tomorrow morning you wake up and something has taken away everything NASA has ever been key to provide and I guarantee your world will change abruptly and severely.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-13-2020).]

Rickady88GT DEC 13, 10:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

And we were stealing theirs for a lot longer than I've been alive. Who do you think invented gunpowder, movable print printing, paper, rockets and hundreds of other things us ''Mericuns" take for granted?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...f_Chinese_inventions

(They didn't invent Chinese checkers tho, or fortune cookies)



Don, do we live in the past? We can go on and on about what happened bach then,...but if we are to progress, we need to learn from our mistakes. What we bleed for needs to stay ours. That seems to be impossible today with so many in the highest levels of Government who are willing to sellout America AND in business at EVERY level.
Has America benefited from "theft of ideas and technology"? No doubt, EVERY first World Country has WITHOUT EXCEPTION. But is that a reason to just give everyone everything we have? HELL NO.
On topic, space "sustainable" exploration NEEDS to be a World wide endeavor. Given that America isn't interested enough or rich enough or dedicated enough or secure enough to do it ourselves, we have to have a dedicated leadership to be able to commit American blood sweat and treasure AND AND AND ALSO have the political skill, clout, wits, ability and charisma to unite the World's Governments to invest in such a project. There is no such gleam of this hope in biden/harris. They would rather pay out every last American cent to other causes.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-13-2020).]

maryjane DEC 13, 11:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


Don, do we live in the past? We can go on and on about what happened bach then,...but if we are to progress, we need to learn from our mistakes. What we bleed for needs to stay ours. That seems to be impossible today with so many in the highest levels of Government who are willing to sellout America AND in business at EVERY level.


That is somewhat of a contradictory post Rick.

We are not a colonial power and never was intended to be. The only thing we need to keep that we bled for is our own nation.
If we are to make things, just selling them to ourselves is a zero sum endeavor. That, was learned many many centuries ago, even before the days of the spice trades and camel caravans.
It is not possible to sell someone a product, and they NOT be able to disassemble and reverse engineer it and produce a like item themselves.
It never was possible either.


Rickady88GT DEC 13, 11:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

That is somewhat of a contradictory post Rick.

We are not a colonial power and never was intended to be. The only thing we need to keep that we bled for is our own nation.
If we are to make things, just selling them to ourselves is a zero sum endeavor. That, was learned many many centuries ago, even before the days of the spice trades and camel caravans.
It is not possible to sell someone a product, and they NOT be able to disassemble and reverse engineer it and produce a like item themselves.
It never was possible either.




Don, I have no doubt you are a very intelligent man. Please tell me you know the reason for patents, including intellectual and artistic as well as inventions and less tangible "properties" like software.
cvxjet DEC 14, 12:02 AM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Who will be the first to harvest an asteroid of it's minerals?
Because, is that what this latest turn is about? About making the next step to commercially mining space?




What you stated is right on the button....I really enjoy learning new stuff about, well, anything....But space exploration needs to "Fund" itself by commercial applications....


Mining asteroids or the moon is good, but DECADES ago one of the corporations did some experiments and found that they could make alloys in zero G that would be stronger than carbon fibers....and it would not be that costly if properly set up...

Most laymen state "It costs so much to get into space- how could mining the moon or asteroids be cost effective?" Going up costs a lot, but to send materials from the moon to the earth is almost zero cost after the initial investment.....Solar powered linear accelerator can sling stuff at earth all day long for (Basically) nothing.
Rickady88GT DEC 14, 07:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:


What you stated is right on the button....I really enjoy learning new stuff about, well, anything....But space exploration needs to "Fund" itself by commercial applications....


Mining asteroids or the moon is good, but DECADES ago one of the corporations did some experiments and found that they could make alloys in zero G that would be stronger than carbon fibers....and it would not be that costly if properly set up...

Most laymen state "It costs so much to get into space- how could mining the moon or asteroids be cost effective?" Going up costs a lot, but to send materials from the moon to the earth is almost zero cost after the initial investment.....Solar powered linear accelerator can sling stuff at earth all day long for (Basically) nothing.



Seems like it would cost A LOT to me. Just causing asteroids to shower down to Earth would burn them down to nothing, unless the size started out so large it would cause massive damage. And what poisonous gasses will be made and how much doing this type of mining. What Country will the miners need to pay to send the asteroids crashing to? Landing in the Ocean means a retrieval team and that would be expensive.
A safer and more reliable method would be to send the material down in a heat shielded vessel that can aim its way down and land safely/safer.
I don't know what the environmental impact of hundreds or thousands of rockets going to space is, but does anyone know the cost per pound of payload to go to space?
I disagree with you statement about the cost of a factory in space. I can see the cost of running a factory out there being VERY high. The simplest of tasks like just going to the bathroom is a big deal, more or less venting the deadly caustic gasses from a manufacturing process. The safety measures to maintain any personnel out there would be crippling.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-14-2020).]