Town Hall Meetings What's your choice? (Page 3/9)
olejoedad OCT 16, 11:49 AM
Then by your standards, you are endorsing all of the traits Mr. Biden has exhibited in his 47 years of politics.

His actions, speeches, comments and voting record are easily available for review.
Thanks for the spelling correction, I didn't catch it.
Synthesis OCT 16, 11:55 AM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

Then by your standards, you are endorsing all of the traits Mr. Biden has exhibited in his 47 years of politics.

His actions, speeches, comments and voting record are easily available for review.
Thanks for the spelling correction, I didn't catch it.



You are making an assumption I am voting for Biden.
olejoedad OCT 16, 12:08 PM
I'm making no assumptions who you are voting for, I'm simply applying your standard of evaluation of one candidate to the other candidate.

I don't care who you vote for. I do care that when people choose to vote, they do so with responsibility, basing their decision on factual concerns and a 'larger than themselves' viewpoint.

And that's the real point of the conversation.

Do we vote based on likeability?
Do we vote based on accomplishment?
Do we vote based on promises?
Do we vote based on party line?
Do we vote based on what benefits me the most?
Do we vote based on war and to maintain the military/industrial machine?
Do we vote based on 'hot button' issues?
Do we vote based on our view of what the Constitution was, is and has enabled?

Or do we vote based on our view of a single man or woman, based on their depiction in the media of their character?
Boondawg OCT 16, 12:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

By voting for Trump, you are endorsing the worst a person can be and doing so gleefully.




He’s 100% right.
What are people going to tell their little girls about how the President talks about & treats women?

That it’s alright for men to treat them that way?

Are these the same fathers that joke about meeting their daughters date at the door with a shotgun to get the point across that they expect them to respect their daughter?

Just like the President does?

That’s their idea of a leader?

Please.
Synthesis is right.
And most of you know it.

I guess if you didn’t personally steal it, that $10 car stereo sold out of the trunk of some guys car at Walmart is 100% conscious-free...”as long as Trump gets me where I want to be financially, I don’t care how he does it”.

Which is fine, but don’t pretend you’re ignoring the bad for some “greater good”.
Boondawg OCT 16, 12:28 PM

quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:


You are making an assumption I am voting for Biden.



Because that is the limit of some people’s ability to accept anything other than the comfortable story they have already pre-built in their head.
Synthesis OCT 16, 12:32 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

I'm making no assumptions who you are voting for, I'm simply applying your standard of evaluation of one candidate to the other candidate.

I don't care who you vote for. I do care that when people choose to vote, they do so with responsibility, basing their decision on factual concerns and a 'larger than themselves' viewpoint.

And that's the real point of the conversation.

Do we vote based on likeability? This should not be a consideration as it is emotion-driven. Likeability has its place, but it should not be the key deciding factor. Sometimes the sour taste of choosing a candidate isn't for the immediate desire to see policy enacted, but instead for the future state of the country as a whole. Will the candidate's policies get us where we collectively believe we need to be by the next peaceful transition of power in 4-8 years?

Do we vote based on accomplishment? This is leaning into "yes" territory. Accomplishment in the political field is important, even if not all accomplishments align with your personal belief indicators.

Do we vote based on promises? Promises mean nothing. Especially after the last four years, and even before that. That leaves track record (accomplishment), which is also not a good indicator of future-state, unless it is very clearly a hard bias one direction or the other. Hard bias is never a good thing.

Do we vote based on party line? This should always be a NO. Sports teams have no place in politics. I have voted Republican. I have voted Democrat. I vote for the person who drives the country in the direction I believe it needs to go while at the same time trying to understand the policies that lead that candidate to the decisions they make. I have made mistakes this way, but we all have I'm sure. Conservative policies hurt people I love in many cases. This does not mean I don't agree with Conservative policies, but I will not vote for a candidate for the sole reason that they are in a party, and I will vote for the one who's policies hurt the people I love the least, or benefit them the most.

Do we vote based on what benefits me the most? This is selfish (not saying you are selfish). This is narrow-minded and does not eliminate the us vs them. This is "I got mine, **** all ya'll."

Do we vote based on war and to maintain the military/industrial machine? This is really where ever you want it to be, though I will say that growing up Military in the deep south, enlisting myself, I know that the red states tend to push more people into military service because of lack of career options, and people who serve in the command positions in the military generally shift their political views more left because of some of the decisions that need to be made and the people they affect. My dad went from hard right wing to solid left because of his time in the military. He's still conservative in some ways, but wants to ensure our military members are safe and cared for. Especially because he has seen what the recipients of military post-service care for disabled vets really receive. He is disabled himself. It took over a decade for them to treat his issues rather than just say "You have PTSD".

Do we vote based on 'hot button' issues? Emotion-driven voting is not good voting. Look at the long term effects of hot button issues rather than the immediate "MUST HURT SOMEONE" mentality that a lot of voters have right now. Emotion = bad choices

Do we vote based on our view of what the Constitution was, is and has enabled? The Constitution is a hard document that defines rules for our society to live by. I am staying out of the 2nd amendment stuff, because I support it, but do not support the extremist views of several people on this forum, including someone local to me that I consider a good friend. But, yes, we have to vote on this. Does someone UPHOLD the Constitution as part of their office, as the Constitution currently stands? Yes, it's in their oath. Failure to do so is a dereliction of duty and they should be removed from office by impeachment for deliberate failure to do so. Don't like the Constitution as it stands? Educate yourself on the process of making the noise necessary to get it into the national eye, and start making noise. Get it visible. Get it voted on. Let the people, as a whole, decide.

Or do we vote based on our view of a single man or woman, based on their depiction in the media of their character? No. This is not the right way to do it. I have used numerous media sources, some left, some right, many centrist, to get my information. I do not subscribe to any one specific media source. Instead, I work very hard to ensure I'm seeing things from all sides, short of extremist views on either side. My views of Donald Trump are not 100% media driven, even though that's where most of the information can come from. I like to find my information from unbiased sources, and I am willing to engage in honest, legitimate discussion in good faith with someone who will return the favor. The second the word "leftist" or any other type of language along those lines comes out they are no longer arguing in good faith and have fallen back on their biased rhetoric. There is no longer room in my social awareness for someone like that.





Now THIS is the type of discussion I can respect. Thank you for providing a well-reasoned list of questions to discuss this openly. Please see my answers above.

[This message has been edited by Synthesis (edited 10-16-2020).]

Boondawg OCT 16, 12:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

I'm making no assumptions who you are voting for, I'm simply applying your standard of evaluation of one candidate to the other candidate.

I don't care who you vote for. I do care that when people choose to vote, they do so with responsibility, basing their decision on factual concerns and a 'larger than themselves' viewpoint.

And that's the real point of the conversation.

Do we vote based on likeability?
Do we vote based on accomplishment?
Do we vote based on promises?
Do we vote based on party line?
Do we vote based on what benefits me the most?
Do we vote based on war and to maintain the military/industrial machine?
Do we vote based on 'hot button' issues?
Do we vote based on our view of what the Constitution was, is and has enabled?

Or do we vote based on our view of a single man or woman, based on their depiction in the media of their character?




“Character” incompass’s all those things.
Donald Trump has zero character.
Without character, you can’t be trusted.

And that’s where all these excuses fall flat.
You can’t trust him.
And he’s proven you can’t.

Only an idiot would trust Donald Trump.
It’s as simple to prove as just asking anyone who has had dealings with him.

Pretending otherwise speaks volumes about the person doing the pretending.

They’re not a patriot, that’s for sure.
Country-over-cult is how you support this country.
Not personality.

Get real.
RWDPLZ OCT 16, 12:46 PM
Synthesis OCT 16, 12:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:




I endorse this message.
olejoedad OCT 16, 02:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:


“Character” incompass’s all those things.
Donald Trump has zero character.
Without character, you can’t be trusted.

And that’s where all these excuses fall flat.
You can’t trust him.
And he’s proven you can’t.

Only an idiot would trust Donald Trump.
It’s as simple to prove as just asking anyone who has had dealings with him.

Pretending otherwise speaks volumes about the person doing the pretending.

They’re not a patriot, that’s for sure.
Country-over-cult is how you support this country.
Not personality.

Get real.




My life experience has taught me that it hard to truly judge a person's character without interacting with them.

Name-calling is beneath you, Boondawg, why do you resort to it so quickly and easily?

Insinuation comes easily to your verbage as well.

Just who is it that you are directing this verbal assault at?