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| Helicopter/passenger plane collision. No survivors, 67 reported dead (Page 2/7) |
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blackrams
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JAN 30, 06:29 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
The Blackhawk WAS asked by ATC if he saw the airliner.
(I agree about Newsmax..clickbait morons most of the time)
It appears a combination of things contributed to the accident. The airliner would have a sharp course change to switch runways from 1 to 33.
I do not, understand the helo's question/statement "Request visual separation" in reference to ATC's ? about whether he saw the jet. |
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Yep, I understand that ATC did ask but, my question is, which aircraft the one landing or the one taking off. Based on what is known at this point, I'm not so sure the Blackhawk crew was looking at the right aircraft.
Most of which is still questionable. I honestly have no idea if the Blackhawk "black box" also records cockpit conversations. I didn't fly Blackhawks. None of the A/C I flew had that option. Maybe but I doubt it.
Rams[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-30-2025).]
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maryjane
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JAN 31, 10:25 AM
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maryjane
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JAN 31, 12:40 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
I can certainly understand the need to be transporting VIPs in this area, but my question is more about the need to be running training missions as well out of this very busy commercial airport. There very well may be valid reasons for doing so... but if not, this tragedy may initiate a re-evaluation of this practice. |
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There ARE, very valid reasons for running training missions in a congested airspace.
The crews HAVE to be able to do it in real life combat conditions in similarly congested airspaces.
You train in and for as close to real conditions as possible and nowadays, that includes urban surroundings.
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cliffw
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JAN 31, 12:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Patrick:
I can certainly understand the need to be transporting VIPs in this area, but my question is more about the need to be running training missions as well out of this very busy commercial airport. There very well may be valid reasons for doing so... but if not, this tragedy may initiate a re-evaluation of this practice. |
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Patrick, I also wondered that. Then I thought about repeated fire drills in school.
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maryjane
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JAN 31, 01:12 PM
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I have been in situations, in the air, where there were many dozens of fixed and rotary wing aircraft at the same time in a relatively small air space, but in real life combat conditions.
The largest combat helicopter operation the US was ever involved in..
Plenty of downed birds and dead friends but Only because of the trained pilots and aircrews were there no mid air collisions.[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-31-2025).]
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maryjane
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JAN 31, 01:51 PM
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One of the Blackhawk pilots was former USN aviation enlisted, but switched over to US Army warrant officer program and became Army pilot. The other Blackhawk pilot is reported to be famale and in training.
Some images of ATC radar I'veseen this morning, showed the helo's altitude at 200', then just before collision, increase to 300' just as jet was descending from 400' to 300'.
Posted on X by Thomas Massie, US Congessman
 [This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-31-2025).]
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blackrams
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JAN 31, 01:57 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
There ARE, very valid reasons for running training missions in a congested airspace.
The crews HAVE to be able to do it in real life combat conditions in similarly congested airspaces.
You train in and for as close to real conditions as possible and nowadays, that includes urban surroundings.
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True and an excellent response.
Rams
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Doug85GT
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JAN 31, 03:04 PM
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This video has some good information in it. The Blackhawk was flying along the river and possibly the pilots saw one aircraft nearby but might not have seen the approaching one that it ultimately collided into.
One thing not said is what I thought was the 1 mile rule. Aircraft should never come closer than 1 mile of each other. Any time that happens it is considered a near miss. ATC should have keep them farther apart.
I agree with his conclusion that the airport should be turned over to the military and a new civilian airport built farther away from D.C.
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Patrick
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JAN 31, 03:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
The crews HAVE to be able to do it in real life combat conditions in similarly congested airspaces.
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I understand completely what you're saying. But is it justified to be putting civilians at risk in commercial airliners while this military training is taking place? I'm pretty sure no one on that plane signed a waiver form agreeing to be involved in a military exercise.
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maryjane
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JAN 31, 10:56 PM
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Depends, whether one views that the price of liberty is always to be borne only by those in uniform or not.
The circumstances that were present that night take place all over America every single day an night.
I see it every day here at Killeen/Ft Hood multi use airport, with Chinook, cobra, and Ah-60 helos flyin in the same flight profiles and flight paths as all the civilian passenger jets. c-17s and C-130s, as well as a LOT of fighter jets coming and going.
I used to go up and watch the USAF aircraft at Dyess USAF take off and land, and, the military aircraft practice T&Gs at the civilian airports both at Abilene and San Angelo. This is the wiki descrioption of Abilene airport.
"Abilene Regional Airport is a public airport located approximately 3 miles southeast of downtown Abilene, in Taylor County, Texas. The airport is located within the Abilene city limits, and is and owned and operated by the city. Most operations at the airport are general aviation and military training."
Military C-130s, F-18s and military helos land and take off from the12,000' runways at Austin's Bergstrom airport all the time .
All up and down the East coast too, unless things have changed since I rode piedmont airline planes back in the 70s.
The smaller 'international' airport in Houston..same way.
Houston's Hobby international airport
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