Seriously, what kind of future do most kids have? (or anticipate having)? (Page 2/4)
Cliff Pennock SEP 05, 09:59 AM
I don't recognize that sentiment in the 80s. In fact The Netherlands was incredibly pro-US in that time. Everything US was great. We were in the middle of the cold war and Russia was the big bad wolf.

The Netherlands has always been a socialist country and during the eighties, the US showed us that capitalism really wasn't so bad. In the eighties, our tv programming changed from only showing dutch tv programs, to mostly American tv shows. Shows like Dallas and Dynasty showed us that it was okay to make a butt-load of money.

That sentiment has changed over the years and now Europeans see the US as mostly wasteful. Europeans don't get why everything has to be so big over there. Everything is oversized. From your cars to your meals. So much goes to waste. Most western European countries are big in efficiency and sustainability. Our cars are small and efficient. In 2035, sales of petrol and gas cars will be banned. In most Dutch cities (as well as a lot of other European cities), waste seperation is mandatory. Stuff like that. Also, even though most western European countries have found a good compromise between socialism and capitalism, we still have a very good social security system. Basic medical insurance costs the same for everyone (about $110 per month), whether rich or poor. But the less money you make, the more it's subsidized. So people with the lowest income, get 100% subsidized.

As for Apeldoorn, I haven't heard anything about placing camera's everywhere and I think that story is bogus. They have placed "sensors" of all over the city but that does not include camera's. All major cities have placed cameras downtown in the busy areas, where people go out. But only because of the fast rising number of violent incidents.Most people are okay with that. Face recognition is, like you said, not allowed and only conspiracy theorists think it happens anyway. But the same people believe China is spying on us using those very same cameras (since they are all chinese made). The latter I find more believable than the Dutch government using face recognition (for what purpose?).
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 05, 10:50 AM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

I don't recognize that sentiment in the 80s. In fact The Netherlands was incredibly pro-US in that time. Everything US was great. We were in the middle of the cold war and Russia was the big bad wolf.

The Netherlands has always been a socialist country and during the eighties, the US showed us that capitalism really wasn't so bad. In the eighties, our tv programming changed from only showing dutch tv programs, to mostly American tv shows. Shows like Dallas and Dynasty showed us that it was okay to make a butt-load of money.

That sentiment has changed over the years and now Europeans see the US as mostly wasteful. Europeans don't get why everything has to be so big over there. Everything is oversized. From your cars to your meals. So much goes to waste. Most western European countries are big in efficiency and sustainability. Our cars are small and efficient. In 2035, sales of petrol and gas cars will be banned. In most Dutch cities (as well as a lot of other European cities), waste seperation is mandatory. Stuff like that. Also, even though most western European countries have found a good compromise between socialism and capitalism, we still have a very good social security system. Basic medical insurance costs the same for everyone (about $110 per month), whether rich or poor. But the less money you make, the more it's subsidized. So people with the lowest income, get 100% subsidized.

As for Apeldoorn, I haven't heard anything about placing camera's everywhere and I think that story is bogus. They have placed "sensors" of all over the city but that does not include camera's. All major cities have placed cameras downtown in the busy areas, where people go out. But only because of the fast rising number of violent incidents.Most people are okay with that. Face recognition is, like you said, not allowed and only conspiracy theorists think it happens anyway. But the same people believe China is spying on us using those very same cameras (since they are all chinese made). The latter I find more believable than the Dutch government using face recognition (for what purpose?).




Man, that's totally different than what I experienced in the 80s. As an American, everyone wanted to talk to me, and those who did, almost all of them wanted to tell me how much they thought America sucked and how the USSR would totally take over in short time. Every time I'd go to a predpark and eat french fries with mayonaise... if someone heard me speaking English, they'd come up to me and start grilling me on the U.S. and aggressions against Russia. I was like... 8, 9, 10, 12... whatever... I was like... I was just a kid and had no idea what they were talking about.

As for conspiracy, almost every conspiracy (propaganda) starts with a basis of truth, that's what makes propaganda and conspiracy become so viral. You start with a shred of truth, and exaggerate. When people investigate the conspiracy, they find some sense of truth in it, and then believe the rest. I don't know about the story, I can't read Dutch, so I don't know how outrageous it gets.

But I know from my experience that China, for example... provides free internet and communications hardware in many, many countries... including right outside military bases, consulates, and embassies. This is all done very intentionally in order to get a "pulse" on what that country is doing... and where their sentiment lies. Imagine 1950s cold war spying on steroids.


As for the "too much" sentiment... I see that every time the entire extended family comes to spend their winters in Central Florida... haha... when I come to visit... it's always a disapproving, "oh... that's too much, that's too big." I brought my Crown Victoria with the 4.6 liter SOHC V8 in it, and they couldn't stop talking about how absurdly huge the car was, and how unnecessarily big the engine was.


As for recycling... one of the things that isn't told, and I don't want to make it political, but the "conservative" states actually have much better recycling programs than the "progressive" states. I don't know why this is... but in California, they don't even really recycle. They may still have recycling bins, and even separate trucks that pick it up... but in the end, it all gets dumped in the same place, which is crazy. It all has to do with cost overruns, and budgets, and union issues.

In the conservative states, they have a pretty solid recycling program. Most states have what's called a... actually, i forgot what it's called (Whirlabator or something). But it's an entire system to separate out materials using buoyancy, magnetism, etc. The metals are all recycled, and everything else is burned in an incinerator which generates electricity. The smoke / gasses are captured using scrubbers, which are then burned when they get too dirty.
MidEngineManiac SEP 05, 11:05 AM
A lot of our "size" comes from distances and logistics, especially with vehicles. We need to be able to carry more. What I used to drive for work in a day would have taken me across several countries in Europe, never mind just a trip between a couple of cities.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 09-05-2022).]

IMSA GT SEP 05, 11:58 AM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

I foresee a world where people are mindless drones. No upbringing can protect kids today from the tremendous influence social media has. If TikTok says you should or shouldn't do something, then that's what kids today will follow. Nothing a parent says can change that. Just look at the incredible stupid challenges going around nowadays. And even though anyone with an IQ higher than 70 should know that it's either dangerous or incredibly stupid, they all do it. I mean, choking, vabbing (google it), skull breaking... Seriously? Are kids nowadays so mindblowingly stupid?



And this is the prime example of shitty parenting. My kids both look at Tik Tok, see the stupidity, and shake their heads. They understand right and wrong. Remember when Covid hit and schools were closed? Parents had to ACTUALLY do their job, raise and home school their kids? The parents went nuts saying "open the schools", "my kid needs an education".
What they really meant to say was "I'm a lazy failure and don't want to be a parent 24/7". That's what today's society is about.
MidEngineManiac SEP 05, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:


..... That's what today's society is about.



Today's society is a total failure. In a large part because of society.

Exactly how is anybody supposed to be at work 24-7 (well, work more, work harder), be a parent 24-7 (parent more, parent harder), house-keeper/property maintainer 24-7 (Work more, housekeep harder) ....ect. You get the idea.

"Societies" and "the economies" demands and expectations have far exceeded what is even close to possible (let alone reasonable) to the average person. It's fine for the 8-figure earners because they can afford to outsource all of it. The rest of the office/factory/retail/workers are pretty much screwed.

What we need is a reset.....to 1953.
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 05, 12:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

What we need is a reset.....to 1953.



Umm... how about 2000... things were good up through then. We still had some politics, and sometimes it got crazy, but people were still decent.
MidEngineManiac SEP 05, 01:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:


Umm... how about 2000... things were good up through then. We still had some politics, and sometimes it got crazy, but people were still decent.



Best I can do is late 60's-early 70's.

Much after that and the average family needed 2 paycheques to live decently.

Which didnt really work out since that basically doubled most expenses PLUS now they had to pay for child care.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 09-05-2022).]

82-T/A [At Work] SEP 05, 02:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:

Best I can do is late 60's-early 70's.

Much after that and the average family needed 2 paycheques to live decently.




Every skill I have except auto-mechanics would be totally useless in a late 60s / early 70s time frame.

I can sweat pipes, and lay tile... but did they even use tile saws back then, or those stupid manual scoring / cutting machines?

Maybe I can get by sweating pipes... or rebuilding carburetors... but all my technical skills would be completely worthless.
Wichita SEP 05, 02:08 PM
What happens when you are a parent trying to score social points among your peers, but it doesn't work with your children? I guess you just get angry at the child?

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 09-05-2022).]

Raydar SEP 05, 03:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Bottom line is that their future is determined by their upbringing. My kids both want to get a job (although they're too young) and be responsible. Those parents who buy the kid a phone and abandon them all day are setting them up for failure. Both my kids understand reality instead of a virtual, fake world. They don't believe anything they see online unless they research it themselves, and they do research it.
I know you spend a ton of time with your child doing robotics and keeping his mind working at all times so I'm pretty sure he will turn out fine too and make the right decisions in his life.



Your (both of you) kids are likely going to turn out fine, because you take an interest in what they're doing, and also attempt to get them interested in useful stuff.
So many people want to "parent by proxy", that it's amazing anything gets done.
My wife was a teacher, and some of the most enlightening moments of her career were parent/teacher conferences - especially concerning a "problem kid".
Almost universally, "problem kids" were the offspring of "problem adults."
Or as she used to put it, "The nut doesn't fall far from the tree."

When I was "baby making" age - late 1970s and after - I really didn't want to bring a kid into the world. (Lots of reasons for this. Some were genetic.) I didn't see things getting any better - and indeed they haven't. Just different.
But I also have seen the children born of my contemporaries grow up to become really stellar human beings, in spite of any crap they had to deal with. So... if nothing else, I guess that proves that people are adaptable. And I suspect that we will continue to be. Given the right start, I think we (or they) will do okay.