Get ready, the 2nd big sell off in 11 years is now underway (Page 2/3)
maryjane JUL 04, 10:21 AM

quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

This may sound bad, but man has beef been terribly expensive for many years. I'm starting to see the price coming down a bit at the grocery store, but it still doesn't come close to the price of pork.

Hell, even wild caught salmon was cheaper than a decent cut piece of beef from Sam's Club.

Although I do prefer pork over beef any day, but its nice to smoke a brisket every once in awhile, though not at $70-$100.

Beef, to me, isn't worth it at $8-$10 a pound, it's just not.



I have bought a lot of briskets for $30 or less but not in recent years.

Most here are too young to remember when there were only 2 retail uses for brisket.
Corned beef (Basically salted and brined brisket flat) or ground into burger. It was too tough a cut, and too fat and stringy, full of undigestible collagen for the home cook to do anything else with so they didn't sell well. Most were ground up.
Then, the public caught on to the 'low and slow' cooking/smoking thing and demand shot up almost overnight. Slow cooking breaks the collagen down into gelatin The smoked brisket demand drove prices up but the other thing is that brisket is one of only a couple of sub-primal cuts you only get one of from a 1/2 carcass.

It's hard to say why beef prices are so high today. There's certainly no beef shortage. The incredible inflation we are seeing in everything else due to energy costs plays a part of it, but processor's margin is also a big issue.
There are only 3-4 big beef processors in the US. Tyson Beef, Cargill, National Beef and JBS. (5 if you count Smithfield but they mostly process pork)
The processors have the animal (and it's product for only a few days but have a much lager profit margin than the farmer that raised it and backgrounder that put on the post weaning weight for a couple of months after weaning.
Farmer has a cow. Breeds it to a bull in (example) January. Calf is in utero for 385 days (about 9 months) Farmer is one way or another feeding that cow/calf pair. Calf is born. Stays on momma's milk for about 3 months then begins to mimic mom and start eating grass as well as continuing to suck momma's milk. At around 6-8 months old, farmer pulls calf off momma, loads it up and hauls it to sale. The farmer now has at least 15 months and it's associated costs in that market calf.
Calf is usally bought by a backgrounder. Calf is now called a feeder. Backgrounder puts it on a feed ration and good grass for a couple months to enhance growth and continue intra muscle marbling, then sends it either directly to a processor or to a feedlot to be 'finished'. (this is where the outer layer of fat you see on a hanging carcass is put on). Each of those has a very slim profit margin with the farmer having by far the lowest due to the length of time he has to feed and care for the calf. The exception is the processor.
Calf enters the processor plant one day and is almost always out the door wrapped and cut within 2-3 weeks and most of that time is hanging (aging) in a freezer.

What did the farmer/rancher get for his 14-15 months raising the market calf?
Last week market report from Lampasas Texas, 16 miles from here and believe it or not, those are some pretty good prices still. As/if the drought and selloff continues, the price will drop precipitously. A full 1/3 of the animals sold was adult culls people are just getting rid of because there is no grass and they don't want to feed hay for the next 8-9 months. (they aren't getting much for those slaughter cows/bulls, as you can see)
(yes, to price for a 600lb steer was $184/lb live weight.)

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-04-2022).]

ls3mach JUL 04, 11:14 AM
Didn't want the huge quote Don, but a $200 cow that is used for meat. How could that ever be profitable for ba farmer?

Can I go buy and either process or take in that $200 cow or is it not the eating type?

That's insane though. I've for sure spent that on a single meal and never even batted an eye. You're telling me I can buy whole cows? You can't even buy dogs for that and people get super pissed when you eat them.
MidEngineManiac JUL 04, 11:16 AM

quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:

How is Kim doing Mike? I hope better and you guys are getting some normalcy.



So far, so good...good days and bad days. She is going back for more MRI next week, and doc has the opiates down to a minimum level, should be off them and on ibuprofen in a bit.

Hair is growing back (YAY) and back up to 140 pounds , the chemo really kicked the **** out of her. At one point there she was down to 80 and a walking skeleton.

Meh, we will get through.
maryjane JUL 04, 02:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:

Didn't want the huge quote Don, but a $200 cow that is used for meat. How could that ever be profitable for ba farmer?

Can I go buy and either process or take in that $200 cow or is it not the eating type?

That's insane though. I've for sure spent that on a single meal and never even batted an eye. You're telling me I can buy whole cows? You can't even buy dogs for that and people get super pissed when you eat them.



Yes, you can buy whole 'cows' for $200, but it won't be much of a 'cow'.
They will either be a few day old dairy calf that will have to be bottle fed for a couple of months or an older broke mouth (teeth worn down) beef cow or has a bad udder or some other defectdue to age or mis-management. (Used to be able to buy day old dairy calves for $25 ea but those days are long gone)
People buy those bad cows, put them on good grass for a couple of months, a little feed and put some weight n them and take them right back to sale if prices remain the same as when they bought them or if prices increase. 'One and done' they're called. If you have extra grass, it's an easy way to make some cow money.

Processing fees are not cheap. Anywhere between $50-$100 kill fee, which means just what it sounds like. Slaughter them, skin, gut, cut off the head and hooves and hang the carcass from a hook on a travelling rail and into the butcher end of the processor they go. 1st stop os the chiller where they will hang and age 14-21 days, then they will be cut up.
They are weighed on 'the rail' and that is 'hanging weight', before chilling. Processor charges $.50-$1.50/lb hanging weight to cut them up as you order, (debone, steaks or roasts, how many lbs of grind, what percent grind, 70/30-80/20-90/10 , custom trim or regular trim, debone or bone in etc. May charge a disposal fee for head, guts and SRM usually under $50 if charged at all. (SRM is Specified Risk Material, which is parts of the animal the govt says presents a risk of mad cow disease)
Packaging is included in processing fee unless you want something special, like cryopak.
(you will lose about 40% of the live weight in the kill/gut/skin process. You will lose another 30% of the hanging weight during the cut/deboning/trim process.
So, an 1200lb live weight steer, you may bring home 525lbs of meat at a cost of around $400. (not including purchase price of the animal when you bought it)
Fats JUL 04, 03:28 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


Yes, you can buy whole 'cows' for $200, but it won't be much of a 'cow'.
They will either be a few day old dairy calf that will have to be bottle fed for a couple of months or an older broke mouth (teeth worn down) beef cow or has a bad udder or some other defectdue to age or mis-management. (Used to be able to buy day old dairy calves for $25 ea but those days are long gone)
People buy those bad cows, put them on good grass for a couple of months, a little feed and put some weight n them and take them right back to sale if prices remain the same as when they bought them or if prices increase. 'One and done' they're called. If you have extra grass, it's an easy way to make some cow money.

Processing fees are not cheap. Anywhere between $50-$100 kill fee, which means just what it sounds like. Slaughter them, skin, gut, cut off the head and hooves and hang the carcass from a hook on a travelling rail and into the butcher end of the processor they go. 1st stop os the chiller where they will hang and age 14-21 days, then they will be cut up.
They are weighed on 'the rail' and that is 'hanging weight', before chilling. Processor charges $.50-$1.50/lb hanging weight to cut them up as you order, (debone, steaks or roasts, how many lbs of grind, what percent grind, 70/30-80/20-90/10 , custom trim or regular trim, debone or bone in etc. May charge a disposal fee for head, guts and SRM usually under $50 if charged at all. (SRM is Specified Risk Material, which is parts of the animal the govt says presents a risk of mad cow disease)
Packaging is included in processing fee unless you want something special, like cryopak.
(you will lose about 40% of the live weight in the kill/gut/skin process. You will lose another 30% of the hanging weight during the cut/deboning/trim process.
So, an 1200lb live weight steer, you may bring home 525lbs of meat at a cost of around $400. (not including purchase price of the animal when you bought it)



Around here you gotta get in line at least a year in advance for the local butcher. And that's not at the good places. That's the ones that swap out meat etc.
ls3mach JUL 04, 04:23 PM
Except for size is processing a cow too terribly much harder than say a deer? The aging part is not something I have any knowledge of. I mean I know it happens, but people were doing his bot long ago, right?

Brad a friend took a deer in a few years ago. He was not thrilled. We all think they just were throwing in all deer and giving a predetermined weight based upon what you brought in. After that he started breaking them down. We all gave him hell for taking it in. He's Indian, in Oklahoma, his dad is a chief in a prominent tribe. Awesome stuff. He was leaning to tan too after that.

A local butcher is hiring. Seems I maybe should get on part time and hone my skills.

[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 07-04-2022).]

82-T/A [At Work] JUL 05, 09:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

People buy those bad cows, put them on good grass for a couple of months, a little feed and put some weight n them and take them right back to sale if prices remain the same as when they bought them or if prices increase. 'One and done' they're called. If you have extra grass, it's an easy way to make some cow money.




I see a new potential show in the works...

Flip or Flop - Bovine Edition
maryjane JUL 05, 02:07 PM

quote
Originally posted by ls3mach:

Except for size is processing a cow too terribly much harder than say a deer? The aging part is not something I have any knowledge of. I mean I know it happens, but people were doing his bot long ago, right?

Brad a friend took a deer in a few years ago. He was not thrilled. We all think they just were throwing in all deer and giving a predetermined weight based upon what you brought in. After that he started breaking them down. We all gave him hell for taking it in. He's Indian, in Oklahoma, his dad is a chief in a prominent tribe. Awesome stuff. He was leaning to tan too after that.

A local butcher is hiring. Seems I maybe should get on part time and hone my skills.




Brad, yes, it is more and more difficult to schedule getting one processed. Gets worse during deer and elk season some places.
Just not enough custom processors out there any more, much less USDA approved processors. With 'farm to table' thing getting more popular, it is getting worse (I fully support farm-to-table tho)

Lonzo. Butchering a 400lb calf isn't bad but a 1100 lb mature cow is a real chore. The weight, physical size and bulkiness of it makes it hard to handle. Most that do their own, start by hanging the dead cow off the bucket of a front end loader. No matter how gently the slaughter process is done, it's stressful on the animal andvastly affects thequality, color and tenderness of the meat (in all animals) Stress causes a massive release of hormones (mainly epinephrine and the glucocorticoids) as well as adrenaline and often a lack of dopamine) All this leads to what is called 'dark cutters or light cutters'. Dark cutters have a very dark red to the meat where light cutters have an almost white pinkish color. Both will be tough, but the big thing is rigor mortise. It happens right away and will stay in the muscle thru butchering unless hung in a chiller for up to 21 days (usually no more than 14 days tho) Beef and pork that have been cut up while the muscles are still contracted (rigor mortise) will be very tough. Chilling the hung carcass releases the muscles. And, butchering an ambient temperature beef carcass is terribly messy.The fat gets soft and unmanagable, the meat soft and hard to make good cuts and it's almost impossible to use a saw on fresh killed beef and you wn't be able to butcher a mature cow without a bone saw. You might get it cut from the joints into big primal chunks but you can't break it down farther without a saw.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-05-2022).]

rinselberg JUL 05, 05:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

I see a new potential show in the works...

Flip or Flop - Bovine Edition


"This Old Herd"

The possibilities are likely almost endless.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 07-05-2022).]

Patrick JUL 05, 06:00 PM

Don, as someone who knows absolutely nothing of the process (city born and bred), I appreciate the amount of detail you've posted in this thread. Very informative!