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| Back in 1836, Houston Said To Travis ... (Page 2/4) |
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williegoat
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MAR 02, 04:34 PM
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cliffw
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MAR 03, 07:16 AM
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cliffw
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MAR 06, 06:00 AM
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On this day, in 1836, the Alamo fell to Santa Anna. Though every single defender was killed, even after it fell, "put to the sword" as was done in Goliad. The "thirteen days of glory" of the Alamo, delayed Santa Anna in his quest to defeat Sam Houston. The commander of our insurrection.
Houston, seemingly retreating east north east, was recruiting and training troops. Also drawing Santa Anna further and further away from his re-supply lines.
There is more to the story. I will save the rest for San Jacinto Day.
I will leave you with this :
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maryjane
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MAR 06, 07:17 AM
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Let the old men tell the story
Let the legend grow and grow
Of the thirteen days of glory
At the siege of Alamo.
Lift the tattered banners proudly
While the eyes of Texas shine.
Let the fort that was a mission
Be an everlasting shrine.
Once they fought to give us freedom.
That is all we need to know
Of the thirteen days of glory
At the siege of Alamo ...
Now the bugles are silent
And there's rust on each sword
And the small band of soldiers...
Lie asleep in the arms of the Lord...
Lie Asleep In The Arms Of The Lord[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-06-2021).]
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cliffw
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MAR 14, 07:32 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Actually, Houston wanted to "tell Travis" and Bowie, to destroy the Mexican garrison, any goods they couldn't haul, and abandon the Alamo.
The newly elected Texas Republic president Smith wouldn't allow it because Bowie had written Smith extolling the importance of holding Bexar and President Smith told Houston to leave the volunteer force in SA alone.
To be factual tho, Travis was a relatively late comer to the town of Bexar. It was Bowie that recived the order to abandon San Antonio.
Ben Milam, Edward Burelson, Stephen Austin, Tejano federalist Juan Seguin and James Neil were the Texican leaders that had originally run Mexican General Cos out of Bexar after 2 months of skirmishes Oct-Dec 1835.
Each of those had their own militia, and each militia elected their own leaders. After the battle, many of the men left Bexar and went home or elsewhere.
Bowie and his men left and met with Houston.
Neil left to look after his family who were sick, as was Neil himself. Milam was killed in the battle.
Burleson left to go join Houston, tho Houston had taken a leave of absence to negotiate a treaty with East Texas indians.
Austin, was appointed by the Texas council as emissary to the USA so he left.
Juan Seguin, was not actually at the Battle of the Alamo, but he has a very special place in Texas history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Segu%C3%ADn.
Burleson and Houston despised each other, but each realized the other's military worth.
Bowie had Houston's trust, and had left to seek counsel with Houston, and it was then, that Houston sent him back to Bexar to access the situation there and ordered him to destroy the Alamo mission, but when he arrived, found only about 100 men left there and decided it was too valuable a strategic location to abandon.
Then, Travis arrived with his own militia and some new Orleans Greys and they opted for a shared command.
Crockett and his own militia arrived, and enough volunteers to make it the famous 385 men.
The big loss was Neil, as he was the most experienced artillery commander, and after the end of the 1st battle, commanded the largest assortment of artillery west of the Mississippi including an 18pounder. An 18pounder had a cannonball with a 19.5" diameter.
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Interesting. All of it. Guess what. It begs questions,  . My local DJ has a Texas trivia question every day of the year. I think it was Wednesday he said on that date, Houston arrived in Gonzales, TX and assumed command of the Texas Army.
I have no clue to what he was doing before his promotion, how he could order the Alamo to be abandoned. How he could say to Travis to get some men and go, fortify the Alamo.
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maryjane
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MAR 14, 11:06 AM
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I doubt your radio personality knows any more about actual Texas histry than you appear to know. Before the gathering March 1 of The Convention of 1836 at Washington-on-the Brazos, there was a prior gathering of delegates at what is known as The Consultation. It took place in Nacogdoches on Nov 1 1835. It was at this meeting that Sam Houston was elected (unanimously) to command Texas military. But, Houston immediately took leave of absence to iron out a treaty with the East Texas Indians. Consultation was initially slated to begin in Oct, but was postponed after violence between the colonists and Mexican troops erupted in Gonzales on Oct 2 1835. Houston didn't conclude that treaty negotiation until Feb 1836.
At the Convention of 1836, the delgates voted for independence and reconfirmed The Consultation's choice of Houston as commander of "all the armies in Texas", which there was none organized at the time.
The Texican military prior to March 1836 consisted of various groups of volunteers scattered across Texas. Gonzales, La Bahia, Bexar, Nacogdoches etc. Each of those militias elected their own leader. When Houston finally arrived in Gonzales to offically take command of 'all the armies in Texas' that militia also voted whether to accept him as commander or not. They voted yes, and he and the militia soon dparted Gonzales for safer ground to the East.
The John Wayne movie shows Houston (Richard Boone) meeting in San Antonio with Travis and other officers after the 1st battle of Bexar stating tha Bowie 'won a battle, and got drunk afterwards". That meeting never took place in real life and in fact, Bowie was not at the Alamo during that period. He, like most of the volunteers from the 1st battle of Bexar had returned home. (Bowies was not even present in Bexar during the final victory at Bexar in Dec 1835, but was there during the earlier Grass Battle and the Battle of Conception)
It was also not Houston that initially ordered Travis to "get some volunteers and go..' to Bexar. It was Provisional gov Henry Smith along with other members of that fractured council. Houston was still dealing with the Cherokee Indians.
Houston met with Bowie in January at Goliad and ordered him back to Bexar to access the situation and destroy the mission, as Houston was not in favor of further defending Bexar. He viewed it as an insignificant military post and too far South and West to be easily defendable.
This is a transcript of one of the letters Houston sent to Gov Smith Jan 17, 1836.
“I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place.”
Once Bowie arrived back in Bexar tho, he decided the town and fortifications too valuable to abandon and the rest is history.
https://www.tshaonline.org/...entries/consultation[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-14-2021).]
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williegoat
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MAR 14, 11:31 AM
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Can I play Bob Wills now?
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cliffw
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MAR 14, 05:32 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Can I play Bob Wills now? |
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No. Maybe later.
| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
I doubt your radio personality knows any more about actual Texas histry than you appear to know. Before the gathering March 1 of The Convention of 1836 at Washington-on-the Brazos, there was a prior gathering of delegates at what is known as The Consultation. It took place in Nacogdoches on Nov 1 1835. It was at this meeting that Sam Houston was elected (unanimously) to command Texas military. But, Houston immediately took leave of absence to iron out a treaty with the East Texas Indians. Consultation was initially slated to begin in Oct, but was postponed after violence between the colonists and Mexican troops erupted in Gonzales on Oct 2 1835. Houston didn't conclude that treaty negotiation until Feb 1836.
At the Convention of 1836, the delgates voted for independence and reconfirmed The Consultation's choice of Houston as commander of "all the armies in Texas", which there was none organized at the time.
The Texican military prior to March 1836 consisted of various groups of volunteers scattered across Texas. Gonzales, La Bahia, Bexar, Nacogdoches etc. Each of those militias elected their own leader. When Houston finally arrived in Gonzales to offically take command of 'all the armies in Texas' that militia also voted whether to accept him as commander or not. They voted yes, and he and the militia soon dparted Gonzales for safer ground to the East.
The John Wayne movie shows Houston (Richard Boone) meeting in San Antonio with Travis and other officers after the 1st battle of Bexar stating tha Bowie 'won a battle, and got drunk afterwards". That meeting never took place in real life and in fact, Bowie was not at the Alamo during that period. He, like most of the volunteers from the 1st battle of Bexar had returned home. (Bowies was not even present in Bexar during the final victory at Bexar in Dec 1835, but was there during the earlier Grass Battle and the Battle of Conception)
It was also not Houston that initially ordered Travis to "get some volunteers and go..' to Bexar. It was Provisional gov Henry Smith along with other members of that fractured council. Houston was still dealing with the Cherokee Indians.
Houston met with Bowie in January at Goliad and ordered him back to Bexar to access the situation and destroy the mission, as Houston was not in favor of further defending Bexar. He viewed it as an insignificant military post and too far South and West to be easily defendable.
This is a transcript of one of the letters Houston sent to Gov Smith Jan 17, 1836.
“I have ordered the fortifications in the town of Bexar to be demolished, and if you should think well of it, I will remove all the cannon and other munitions of war to Gonzales and Copano, blow up the Alamo and abandon the place.”
Once Bowie arrived back in Bexar tho, he decided the town and fortifications too valuable to abandon and the rest is history.
https://www.tshaonline.org/...entries/consultationClick to show
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Thank you Don.[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-14-2021).]
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blackrams
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MAR 17, 05:41 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by sourmash:
It says Texas was won by an amalgamation of citizens from other states. SALUTE!, to them! |
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If this is accurate, only a few of the defenders were actually Texans. Though, Americans (and others) from all over died for a worthy cause.
Defenders
Name Rank Birth year Birthplace
Juan Abamillo SGT — Texas
James L. Allen PVT 1815 Kentucky
Robert Allen PVT — Virginia
Horace Alsbury PVT 1805 Kentucky
George Andrews — — —
Miles DeForest Andross PVT 1809 Vermont
José María Arocha — — —
Simon Arreola — — —
Micajah Autry PVT 1793[34] North Carolina
Jesse B. Badgett — 1807 Texas
A. Badillo SGT — Texas
Peter James Bailey III PVT 1812 Kentucky
Isaac G. Baker PVT 1814 Arkansas
William Charles M. Baker CPT — Missouri
John Ballard — — —
John J. Ballentine PVT — Pennsylvania
Richard W. Ballentine PVT 1814 Scotland
Andrew Barcena — — —
John J. Baugh CPT 1803 Virginia
Samuel G. Bastain — — Louisiana
Joseph Bayliss PVT 1808 Tennessee
John Walker Baylor Jr. PVT 1813 Kentucky
Anselmo Bergara — — Mexico
John Blair PVT 1803 Tennessee
Samuel Blair CPT 1807 Tennessee
William Blazeby CPT 1795 England
James Bonham 2LT 1807 South Carolina
Daniel Bourne PVT 1810 England
James Bowie COL c. 1796 Kentucky
J. B. Bowman — — —
Robert Brown PVT c. 1818
James Buchanan PVT 1813 Alabama
Samuel E. Burns PVT 1810 Ireland
George D. Butler PVT 1813 Missouri
John Cain PVT 1802 Pennsylvania
Robert Campbell LT 1810 Tennessee
William R. Carey CPT 1806 [b]Virginia[/b]
Cesario Carmona — — —
M.B. Clark PVT — Mississippi
Daniel W. Cloud PVT 1812 Kentucky
Robert E. Cochran PVT 1810 New Hampshire
George Washington Cottle LT 1811 Missouri
Henry Courtman PVT 1808 Germany
Lemuel Crawford PVT 1814 South Carolina
David Crockett COL 1786 Tennessee
Robert Crossman PVT 1810 Pennsylvania
Antonio Cruz y Arocha PVT — Mexico
David P. Cummings PVT 1809 Pennsylvania
Robert Cunningham PVT 1804 New York
Matias Curvier — — —
Jacob C. Darst LT 1793 Kentucky
John Davis PVT 1811 Kentucky
Freeman H.K. Day PVT 1806
Squire Daymon PVT 1808 Tennessee
William Dearduff PVT c. 1811 Tennessee
Alexandro De la Garza PVT — Texas
Stephen Dennison PVT 1812 ]England or Ireland
Francis L. DeSauque CPT — Pennsylvania
John Desauque — — Louisiana
Charles Despallier PVT 1812 Louisiana
Lewis Dewall PVT 1812 New York
Almaron Dickinson CPT 1810 Tennessee
James Dickson — — —
John Henry Dillard PVT 1805 Tennessee
Philip Dimmitt CPT 1801 Kentucky
James R. Dimpkins SGT — England
Andrew Duvalt PVT 1804 Ireland
Samuel M. Edwards — — —
Conrad Eigenauer — — —
J.D. Elliott — — —
Frederick E. Elm — — —
Lucio Enriques — — —
Carlos Espalier PVT 1819 Texas
José Gregorio Esparza PVT 1802 Texas
Robert Evans MAJ 1800 Ireland
Samuel B. Evans PVT 1812 New York
James L. Ewing PVT 1812 Tennessee
William Keener Fauntleroy PVT 1814 Kentucky
William Fishbaugh PVT — Alabama
John Flanders PVT 1800 Salisbury, Massachusetts
Manuel N. Flores — c.1801 Texas
Salvador Flores CPT 1806 Texas
Dolphin Ward Floyd PVT 1804 North Carolina
John Hubbard Forsyth CPT 1797 New York
Antonio Fuentes PVT 1813 Texas
Galba Fuqua PVT 1819 Alabama
William Garnett PVT 1812 Virginia
James W. Garrand PVT 1813 Louisiana
James Girard Garrett PVT 1806 Tennessee
John E. Garvin PVT 1809 —
John E. Gaston PVT 1819 —
James George PVT 1802 —
William George — — —
James Gibson — — —
John C. Goodrich CNT 1809 Virginia
Francis H. Gray — — —
W.T. Green — — —
Albert Calvin Grimes PVT 1817 Georgia
Ignacio Gurrea — — —
Brigido Guerrero PVT — Mexico
James C. Gwin PVT 1804 England
John Harris PVT 1813 Kentucky
Andrew Jackson Harrison PVT 1809 Tennessee
I.L.K. Harrison — — —
William B. Harrison CPT 1811 Ohio
Joseph M. Hawkins PVT 1799 Ireland
John M. Hays PVT 1814 Tennessee
Charles M. Heiskell PVT 1813 Tennessee
Patrick Henry Herndon PVT 1802 Virginia
Pedro Herrera — — —
William Daniel Hersee SGT 1805 England
Benjamin Franklin Highsmith PVT 1817 Missouri
Tapley Holland PVT 1810 Ohio
James Holloway — — —
Samuel Holloway PVT 1808 Pennsylvania
William D. Howell — 1791 Massachusetts
William Hunter — — —
Thomas P. Hutchinson — — —
William A. Irwin — — —
Thomas R. Jackson PVT — Ireland
William Daniel Jackson LT 1807 Kentucky
Green B. Jameson MAJ 1807 Kentucky
Gordon C. Jennings CPL 1780 Connecticut
Damacio Jiménez PVT — Texas
John Johnson PVT 1800 Missouri
Lewis Johnson PVT — Illinois
William Johnson PVT — Pennsylvania[font=Arial][/font]
William P. Johnson SGT — —
John Jones 1LT 1810 New York
John Benjamin Kellogg LT 1817 Kentucky
James Kenny PVT 1814 Virginia
Andrew Kent PVT 1791 Kentucy
Joseph Kent — — —
Joseph Kerr PVT 1814 Louisiana
George C. Kimble LT 1803 Pennsylvania
John C. Kin — — —
William Philip King PVT 1820 Mississippi
William Irvine Lewis PVT 1806 Virginia
William J. Lightfoot 3CPL 1805 Kentucky
Jonathan Lindley PVT 1814 Illinois
William Linn PVT — Massachusetts
Byrd Lockhart CPT 1782 Virginia
Toribio Losoya PVT 1808 Texas
George Washington Main LT 1807 Virginia
William T. Malone PVT 1817 Georgia
William Marshall PVT 1808 Tennessee
Albert Martin 1808 Rhode Island
Samuel Augustus Maverick PVT 1803 South Carolina
Edward McCafferty LT — —
Ross McClelland — — —
Daniel McCoy Jr. — — —
Prospect McCoy — — —
William McDowell PVT 1794 Pennsylvania
James McGee PVT — Ireland
John McGregor SGT — Scotland
Robert McKinney PVT 1809 Ireland
S.W. McNeilly — — —
Eliel Melton QM, LT 1798 Georgia
Antonio Menchaca — 1800 Texas
Thomas R. Miller PVT 1795 Tennessee
William Mills PVT 1815 Tennessee
Isaac Millsaps PVT c. 1795 Mississippi
Edward F. Mitchasson — 1806 Virginia
Edwin T. Mitchell PVT 1806 —
Napoleon B. Mitchell PVT 1804 —
Robert B. Moore PVT 1781 Virginia
Willis A. Moore PVT 1808
John Morman — — — fatality
William Morrison — — —
Robert Musselman SGT 1805 Ohio
James Nash — — —
Andrés Nava SGT 1810 Texas
Gerald Navan PVT — —
George Neggan PVT 1808 South Carolina
Andrew M. Nelson PVT 1809 Tennessee
Edward Nelson PVT 1816 South Carolina
George Nelson PVT 1805 South Carolina
Benjamin F. Nobles LT — —
James Northcross PVT 1804 Virginia
James Nowlan PVT 1809 England
L.R. O'Neil — — —
George Olamio PVT — Ireland
William Sanders Oury PVT 1817 Virginia
Jose Sebastian "Luciano" Pacheco — — —
George Pagan PVT 1810 —
Christopher Adams Parker PVT 1814
William Parks PVT 1805 North Carolina
William Patton AQM, LT 1808 Kentucky
Richardson Perry PVT 1817 Mississippi
Amos Pollard — 1803 Massachusetts
Eduardo Ramirez — — —
John Purdy Reynolds PVT 1806 Pennsylvania
Thomas H. Roberts PVT — —
James Waters Robertson PVT 1812 Tennessee
Ambrosio Rodriguez — — —
Guadalupe Rodriquez — — —
James M. Rose PVT 1805 Ohio
Jacob Roth MAJ — —
Jackson J. Rusk PVT — Ireland
Joseph Rutherford 1798 Kentucky
Isaac Ryan PVT 1805 Louisiana
W.H. Sanders — — —
Mial Scurlock PVT 1809 North Carolina
Juan Seguín CPT 1806 Texas
Marcus L. Sewell PVT 1805 England
Manson Shied PVT 1811 Georgia
Silvero — — —
Cleveland Kinloch Simmons LT 1815 South Carolina
Andrew H. Smith PVT 1815 Tennessee
Charles S. Smith PVT 1806 Maryland
John William Smith — 1792 Virginia
Joshua G. Smith SGT 1808 North Carolina
William H. Smith PVT 1811 —
Launcelot Smither PVT 1800 —
Andrew Jackson Sowell PVT 1815 Tennessee
John Spratt — — —
Richard Starr PVT 1811 England
James E. Stewart PVT 1808 England
Richard L. Stockton PVT 1817 New Jersey
A. Spain Summerlin PVT 1817 Tennessee
William E. Summers PVT 1812 Tennessee
John Sutherland PVT 1792 Virginia
William DePriest Sutherland PVT 1818 Alabama
Edward Taylor PVT 1812 Tennessee
George Taylor PVT 1816 Tennessee
James Taylor PVT 1814 Tennessee
William Taylor PVT 1799 Tennessee
B. Archer M. Thomas PVT 1818 Kentucky
Henry Thomas PVT 1811 Germany
Thompson — — —
John W. Thomson PVT 1807 North Carolina
John, M. Thurston 2LT 1812 Pennsylvania
Burke Trammel PVT 1810 Ireland
Joe Travis — 1813 or 1815 Alabama
William B. Travis LTC 1809 South Carolina
George W. Tumlinson PVT 1814 Missouri
James Tylee, James PVT 1795 New York
Asa Walker PVT 1813 Tennessee
Jacob Walker PVT 1799 Tennessee
William B. Ward SGT 1806 Ireland
Henry Warnell PVT 1812 Arkansas
Joseph G. Washington PVT c. 1808 Tennessee
Thomas Waters PVT 1812 England
William Wells PVT 1798 Georgia
Isaac White SGT — —
Robert White CPT 1806 England
Hiram James Williamson SMA 1810 Pennsylvania
William Wills — — —
David L. Wilson PVT 1807 Scotland
John Wilson PVT 1804 Pennsylvania
Anthony Wolf PVT 1782 —
Claiborne Wright PVT 1810 North Carolina
Charles Zanco LT 1808 Denmark
Vicente Zepeda — — —
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...t_of_Alamo_defenders
Just a quick glance and it appears there were more Kentuckians and Tennesseans there than Texans. Who knew............ 
Edited: Seeing it highlighted with the different states colored as they are puts a whole different perspective on defending the Alamo.
Rams[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 03-17-2021).]
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sourmash
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MAR 17, 08:31 AM
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Some of us knew. Not always, or necessarily in this thread, but frequently Texans need to be reminded. It's always an opportunity to inform readers.
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