Is the Republican Party dead? (Page 2/5)
theogre JAN 20, 08:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
It will take a generation or more for a third party to gain enough traction to be a viable force.

Very unlikely a 3rd party will ever see sun light. Plus GOP and Dems will Never let a 3rd party to debate or anything else again. Part of Big Reasons Why League of Women Voters Stopped supporting President and other Debates many Years ago. Debating now is just a scam. Almost as a bad now as dystopia story lines where voting is a scam too.

Suggest you dig deeper how that went w/ Ross Perot and maybe a few others.
In short RP & his VP was treated as a joke and dems hope to stop GH Bush a second term bending the vote to Clinton... 1992 United States presidential election (wiki)

Note that "Independent Party" is the 3rd party in many US states. So How many offices have Independent holders? In Most states is Very Few or None.
In many states you must Declare you are in that party before there is a Primary for them but I've never heard of 2+ Independents for a given race that need a Primary before General voting.
Is why Many states now list people as Undeclared when doesn't say at voter registry time or in a Motor Voter state and doesn't register w/ a party. Undeclared still can't vote in most primaries, go to caucus, or whatever that state uses.
(Motor Voter? Many US states your Driver License Is Voter Registration too. If you move you auto change voting district etc when you update driver license which is required by law in most places and often must be done in ≤30 days.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 01-20-2021).]

theBDub JAN 21, 01:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

If the GOP remains splintered, there will never be enough of a consensus to stave off the Democratic Socialists. The opposition will always be united because they never let principle get in the way of victory.

There seems to be two major opposing factions and I don't see them ever seeing eye to eye. On one side we have the RINOs, Never Trumpers and the garden variety crooks; and on the other side there are the conservatives in the mold of Goldwater and Reagan.

It will take a generation or more for a third party to gain enough traction to be a viable force.




That’s... not how I’d characterize the two factions. You have Trumpians (RINO) on one side, and conservatives on the other.

That said, I think Republicans will figure out how to band together, and more than Democrats with their Progressive problem. If they do decide to split, though, I’d gladly support the minimal government, low-spending, personal freedom faction. We can even call them... libertarians
sourmash JAN 21, 01:42 PM
Libertarian means open the borders and let the hordes invade at will. No thanks.

Republicans in Wasington are the party of appeasement.

Aren't Trumpers more conservative than the party AND Trump?
theBDub JAN 21, 02:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Libertarian means open the borders and let the hordes invade at will. No thanks.

Republicans in Wasington are the party of appeasement.

Aren't Trumpers more conservative than the party AND Trump?



I’d say libertarians live on a spectrum. Some are full anarchy, others more minarchist, others follow the Libertarian Party platform religiously. But you aren’t wrong, most libertarians would want open borders or at least drastically reduced government-imposed barriers.

Trumpians are tough to describe. From my perspective, they say things that they don’t actually believe in. They typically say they want religious liberty, but they really just want it for Christians. They say they want companies to have freedom to turn down service for any reason, but they don’t want companies to ban them for not wearing a mask. They say they don’t want to spend a bunch of government money, but supported high government spending by Trump’s administration. I have a really hard time tracking down what they actually believe, vs. just endlessly supporting Trump with everything he does.
williegoat JAN 21, 02:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

Trumpians are tough to describe.


That is because you are trying to describe the movement by the man. Many of us supported Trump because of his policies. We do not support the policies because of Trump.
That is also why you define the rift in the Republican party as for or against Trump.

I want a strong America (financially and militarily), secure borders, low taxes and freedom as defined in the Bill of Rights. Trump promoted those same goals, as did Reagan and Goldwater.
sourmash JAN 21, 02:52 PM
Many Trumpers are confused but so are almost all people.
Dems used to be thought of as anti war and for the every day man. Now roles are perceived as reversed where Trump voters are Joe Sixpack but academia, media moguls and Big Tech are Dem donors. Dems in DC for certain want that war with Syria to escalate to Iran and the top donors for Dems have been the mega rich. They all supported those ME wars. They freaked when Donald wanted out of them. Big money didn't like that.

My circle of Trump supporters aren't all-out Trumpers and the one who's closest likes to smoke a little. Or a lot.

Trump is their outsider in their eyes. He's bucking the establishment. For a few years the establishment couldn't screw us as hard, and that's a good thing IMO.
theBDub JAN 21, 03:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by williegoat:

That is because you are trying to describe the movement by the man. Many of us supported Trump because of his policies. We do not support the policies because of Trump.
That is also why you define the rift in the Republican party as for or against Trump.

I want a strong America (financially and militarily), secure borders, low taxes and freedom as defined in the Bill of Rights. Trump promoted those same goals, as did Reagan and Goldwater.



That’s a good observation. In 2016, I fervently defended my Trump-supporting friends and family, because it was definitely a policy > man decision. When tax cuts were introduced, I supported Trump’s decision. When Trump said we were getting out of Syria, I supported him (though it took awhile to actually leave).

What I saw overall though, my experience, was that most people I know that supported him for policy in 2016 turned into weird cult-like followers by 2020. Many are still on Facebook publicly supporting decisions they were previously against. Some are saying they still think this is all part of Trump’s plan, and Biden had to get sworn in so Trump could better drain the swamp.

So you’re right, I have changed my opinion on it over time, because I think people’s beliefs have changed over time. That said, it could just be my bubble of influence.
williegoat JAN 21, 03:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

What I saw overall though, my experience, was that most people I know that supported him for policy in 2016 turned into weird cult-like followers by 2020.


During the primaries, I supported Ted Cruz, though there were things that I liked about Rand Paul and Marco Rubio. Once Trump was the candidate, I supported him because he was not Hillary Clinton. When he won, all I could do was hope for the best.
As time went by, I was pleasantly surprised by much of what he did, so I was a much more ardent supporter last year.

In 2016, there was nothing I wanted more than for America to see a series of debates between Ted Cruz and Bernie Sanders. It would have been enlightening.

edit to add: I have always been registered as "party not designated" but I do support the AZGOP because they are my best hope.



I really pushed for Martha, though I knew my efforts were futile.

[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-21-2021).]

blackrams JAN 21, 07:47 PM
Many of President Biden's executive orders coming out now will help solidify his opposition.
He's doing it early in his administration to let the Right's anger die down before the next two elections.

Rams
gtjoe JAN 21, 08:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

What I saw overall though, my experience, was that most people I know that supported him for policy in 2016 turned into weird cult-like followers by 2020. Many are still on Facebook publicly supporting decisions they were previously against. Some are saying they still think this is all part of Trump’s plan, and Biden had to get sworn in so Trump could better drain the swamp.




you probably shouldn't judge 75 million people by the rantings of a few people on facebook that bought into a phsyop.