Is the LEFT to be in power in 2021, almost in power? (Page 2/5)
randye DEC 30, 10:29 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


So what is your opinion? Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"? Is it generational? Taught?
Are they not? I'm talking in the USA, not just Texas.




1. Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"?.....NO

Classic "liberalism" and "Leftism", (a/k/a Marxism, Socialism, Progressivism, etc.) are separate and distinct ideologies.

The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S., so as far as the political party goes, YES (and it isn't slowly)

2. Is it generational?.....Partly, YES

Children are inherently utopians. They see the world full of endless possibilities that satisfy their immediate wants and desires, ("Why can't I have candy and treats for every meal?, Why can't we live in Disney World all year?, Why, Why, Why...I want, I want, I want).
Children also live "in the moment" in their emotions and make their decisions and form their larval ideas about the world based on those emotions, (IT'S NOT FAIR!,... YOU HATE ME!). The realities and limitations of the world never enter into their thinking until they grow up, IF THEY DO.

Unfortunately there seems to be a (increasing) portion of the population that cannot, or will not, grow up. They remain the fantasy utopians of childhood and never fully develop adult reasoning skills but remain trapped in the emotional thinking of childhood. They become children in adult bodies and their reasoning remains stunted as well.
(#3 below, isn't helping matters.)

3. Is it Taught?.......YES

Both critical thinking skills and the idea of personal responsibility seem to be seriously waning in the education of young people.
Instead they are increasing taught the importance of their racial, sexual, ethnic and personal "uniqueness" and the overwhelming importance of their feelings above all else. That idea of the huge importance of "uniqueness" is the original meaning of the term "snowflake" no matter how it has been misused since and it is also the genesis of an entire generation or two of very self-absorbed, self-indulgent, young people.

Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil which inevitably results in children afraid to make any reasoned decision lest they commit the "sin" of discrimination. (Note that I am NOT talking about racial discrimination or discrimination based on someone's immutable characteristics). Children are being taught that there are no ideas or ways of living that are better than another. They must NOT discriminate. (The saying; "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is one of the examples of that kind of warped, indiscriminate, reasoning.)

The idea that one must never discriminate in any way inevitably and invariably leads to complete indiscriminateness of thought.

When you couple that with an immature mind in an adult body it is a recipe for a generation or two of pliable, willing, subjects as opposed to free citizens in a free society.

Then the utopian propaganda of "Socialism Good...Capitalism Bad", "Tax the Rich", "FREE college, healthcare, housing, food, income etc.", "It's a "Human Right", "Black Lives Matter", "Defund the Police"...and on and on and on is pushed like a constant drumbeat and those pliable, puerile, minds can be organized into a LEFTIST revolution that they will suffer and die from as everyone in history before them has......

But they were never taught that long, failed, history of Marxism so they have to painfully rediscover it.

THEN some of them, (that survive) , may finally grow up.

....................................

Although he was a statist like all liberals (and Leftists), John F. Kennedy was probably the last glimmer of a true classic liberal in the Demorat party.
Today's Demorats absolutely cringe at Kennedy's challenge to Americans: "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-05-2021).]

randye DEC 30, 10:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Both parties cater to the special interests. Republicans are going hard so they can say the Democrats are the real racists. Eff them both. They both suck'm totem pole.



Well, Demorats ARE the real racists.

Since Republicans freed their slaves in 1862 Demorats haven't stopped trying to continue to subjugate them in one form or another.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-30-2020).]

cliffw DEC 31, 08:35 AM

quote
Originally posted by randye:
Well, Demorats ARE the real racists.

Since Republicans freed their slaves in 1862 Demorats haven't stopped trying to continue to subjugate them in one form or another.



Are we really to believe that ? Sheesh, ... if we do ... the next thing I expect from you, is you telling us the Demonrats practice "identity politics".
sourmash DEC 31, 09:35 AM
It's a totally self defeating, losing battle that Republicans are fooled into playing. 'Democrats are the real racists' policy makes the Republicans try even hard to prostate everyone in the nation to special interest groups. It's too late to save the country because neither party in DC will protect the citizens from foreign invaders and dual citizens.

The America of our ideals doesn't exist. It's just a theory.
2.5 DEC 31, 11:23 AM

quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I'm just confused. Is the point eluding me, because shouldn't "Republican" be replaced everywhere there it reads liberal?



I do think he was a bit liberal with the praise for liberals
2.5 DEC 31, 11:25 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

No.

The liberals are no farther to the left now than they were when I was 20.
If anything, it is the center, that has moved.

It is mostly the 'perception' of the liberal ideology that has changed and because of that perceptual movement or awakening, the internet's right and center right has become more vocal.
They are not however, saying anything that is anywhere near as earthshattering as the speakers would have their listeners believe and certainly are not saying anything new.




So in that sense, would then you say liberals have not changed, conservatives have not changed, but new folks "the LEFT" entering the arena are neither liberal or conservative, but are indeed growing?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]

2.5 DEC 31, 11:36 AM

quote
Originally posted by randye:


1. Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism"?.....NO

Classic "liberalism" and "Leftism", (a/k/a Marxism, Socialism, Progressivism, etc.) are separate and distinct ideologies.

The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S., so as far as the political party goes, YES (and it isn't slowly)

2. Is it generational?.....Partly, YES

Children are inherently utopians. They see the world full of endless possibilities that satisfy their immediate wants and desires, ("Why can't I have candy and treats for every meal?, Why can't we live in Disney World all year?, Why, Why, Why...I want, I want, I want), Children also live "in the moment" in their emotions and make their decisions and form their larval ideas about the world based on those emotions, (IT'S NOT FAIR!,... YOU HATE ME!). The realities and limitations of the world never enter into their thinking until they grow up, IF THEY DO.

Unfortunately there seems to be a (growing) portion of the population that cannot, or will not, grow up. They remain the fantasy utopians of childhood and never fully develop adult reasoning skills but remain trapped in the emotional thinking of childhood. They become children in adult bodies and their reasoning remains stunted as well. (#3 below, isn't helping matters.)

3. Is it Taught?.......YES

Both critical thinking skills and the idea of personal responsibility seem to be seriously waning in the education of young people.
Instead they are increasing taught the importance of their racial, sexual, ethnic and personal "uniqueness" and the overwhelming importance of their feelings above all else. That idea of the huge importance of "uniqueness" is the original meaning of the term "snowflake" no matter how it has been misused since and it is also the genesis of an entire generation or two of very self-absorbed, self-indulgent, young people.

Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil which inevitably results in children afraid to make any reasoned decision lest they commit the "sin" of discrimination. (Note that I am NOT talking about racial discrimination or discrimination based on someone's immutable characteristics). Children are being taught that there are no ideas or ways of living that are better than another. They must NOT discriminate.

The idea that one must never discriminate in any way inevitably and invariably leads to complete indiscriminateness of thought. When you couple that with an immature mind in an adult body it is a recipe for a generation or two of pliable, willing, subjects as opposed to free citizens in a free society.

Then the utopian, indiscriminate, propaganda of "Socialism Good...Capitalism Bad", "Tax the Rich", "FREE college, housing, food, income etc.", "It's a "Human Right", "Black Lives Matter", "Defund the Police"...and on and on and on is pushed like a constant drumbeat and those pliable, puerile, minds can be organized into a LEFTIST revolution that they will suffer and die from as everyone in history before them has......

But they were never taught that history so they have to painfully rediscover it.

THEN some of them that survive may finally grow up.

....................................

Although he was a statist like all liberals (and Leftists), John F. Kennedy was probably the last glimmer of a true classic liberal in the Demorat party.
Today's Demorats absolutely cringe at Kennedy's challenge to Americans: "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country”







I think we agree entirely. Great post.

I would also add that along with The perception of "Discrimination in ANY form is also now taught as an ultimate evil " ...being one of the perceived discriminated against, is a badge for some worn with pride, worn to be known as the victim, making one popular and promoting victimhood and "us vs them" mentality.

***This "The ideology of classic liberalism seems to be quickly dying off in the Democrat party in the U.S."
I guess is what I mean when I say "Are the liberals slowly sliding into "leftism" ...because on percantage maybe they are even if only by "classic liberals" dying off.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]

maryjane DEC 31, 12:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


1. So in that sense, would then you say liberals have not changed, 2. conservatives have not changed, but new folks "the LEFT" entering the arena are neither liberal or conservative, but are indeed growing?



1. The conservatives in the last 30 years have been lulled into believing they can work with or control the left. The liberal base has not changed...They have always been far left. The last time we had a true conservative in Washington that could bring the left around was Reagan. A different era, and the Cold War was a big part of Reagan's success with the liberals. The left/liberals have not yet had their 'Reagan moment' in the oval office simply because they have not found a party leader that is charismatic enough to fill that role. (Obama was not, they were banking on HRC but that didn't happen, and Biden/Kamala ain't it either.) But, it's coming. A younger Bernie type.

2. No, I would not say that at all. The 'new folks' are no more or less 'Left' than the old ones. Liberals have always been socialist, gun grabbing, communist pacifying, baby killing, open border tax and spenders and always will be. The ONLY thing that has changed, is they realized the conservative bases have become weak and they are now being more vocal regarding what they always felt and believed, and are now getting very close & ready to exploit that weakness. Too many conservatives and so-called independents/Libertarians have bought into and accepted the 'free stuff' political society, moving toward traditional 'center' and as a result, the center itself has moved to the left. There is comparatively very little far right any more. It's a vacuum over there, and I doubt it will change anytime in the near future.

There is grave danger in listening to talking heads that are doing nothing but telling you what you want to hear and that which you should already know and coming away thinking it has made a difference. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy, give you absolution, and you may get some small satisfaction in sharing the obvious with everyone else, but listen more, to the enemy.
Keep them closer...

That $2,000 free stimulus check being talked about? There are TONS of people that call themselves conservatives just waiting for that check to make it thru congress and get signed into law and the pandemic has very little to do with it. They've moved toward center and want their share of the pie, and it's going to get worse and there isn't a damn thing those talking heads are going to be able to do about it.

Remember ..Those talking heads on youtube are making $$$$$$ telling you exactly what you want to hear and what you already know.

Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?
MidEngineManiac DEC 31, 03:25 PM
The simple fact is the left and their political-correctness will NEVER be in "power". They only have as much power as you allow them to have. If they make rules, ignore them. If they pass laws break them. Constitutional Rights are a FAR higher authority than snowflake views.
2.5 DEC 31, 04:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

The left/liberals have not yet had their 'Reagan moment' in the oval office simply because they have not found a party leader that is charismatic enough to fill that role. (Obama was not, they were banking on HRC but that didn't happen, and Biden/Kamala ain't it either.) But, it's coming. A younger Bernie type.



This is also what I mean with the OP, we are headed there it seems.


quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
There is grave danger in listening to talking heads that are doing nothing but telling you what you want to hear and that which you should already know and coming away thinking it has made a difference. It may make you feel warm and fuzzy, give you absolution, and you may get some small satisfaction in sharing the obvious with everyone else, but listen more, to the enemy.
Keep them closer...



Thanks for this, but yea i know, heck thats part of how our nation got in this hole. What I feel is I think I know what the LEFT wants, (the leaders and the tools) and what it will do and it is insane. I don't really know what I can do about it though...other than spread the truth. (And vote of course.)



quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
That $2,000 free stimulus check being talked about? There are TONS of people that call themselves conservatives just waiting for that check to make it thru congress and get signed into law and the pandemic has very little to do with it. They've moved toward center and want their share of the pie, and it's going to get worse

and there isn't a damn thing those talking heads are going to be able to do about it.
Remember ..Those talking heads on youtube are making $$$$$$ telling you exactly what you want to hear and what you already know.

Do you know how politicians get support and get elected/re-elected?



Part 1 what could one do even if they (like us) think the stimulus checks will bankrupt the nation, is there a choice in the matter?

Part 2 I agree but information and knowledge is valuable. Sincere ones are probably thinking what I said just earlier: ...don't really know what they can do about it other than spread the truth. (And vote of course.) If they have a platform they should use it I think.
Of course yes there is tons of misinformation and money making advertising/propaganda bs, goes without saying. It is for each individual to determine what is what.

Ya giving people what they want 9Or saying they will) (That plus money and propaganda, and these days owning the media in one way or another). The problem in the end is the citizens, not enough want the right things anymore.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-31-2020).]