The 52 United States of America. That's what the Loony Leftists are getting up to. ** (Page 2/2)
maryjane DEC 14, 09:30 AM
The covid vaccine is already being distributed in Puerto Rico


(actually, I think that is the Pacific version of the nation in question. P.I.)
Notorio DEC 15, 04:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by randye:

Let's be very clear about this point.

Any "inclination toward abolition" was NOT founded in any moral considerations about slavery ...



There was a strong abolition movement in the North creating demands at the Constitutional Convention that almost sank the formation of the United States. The 3/5th clause was a political concession to keep the South at the bargaining table, as was the 20-yr moratorium on the General Government passing legislation restricting the slave trade (i.e. 'the Migration or Importation of such Persons '..., see Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 1). Hopeful Northerners, overlooking biology, thought that Slavery was going to peter out by that time (1808) under the natural weight of its inefficiencies. Unfortunately, they could not have been more wrong. Joseph Ellis in his book, Founding Brothers, looks at the history of the First Congress being immediately (Feb 11, 1790) presented with petitions submitted by Quakers from New York & PA to abolish the Slave Trade. The following day the Pennsylvania Abolition Society presented a petition to abolish both the Slave Trade AND Slavery itself. These were the equivalent of tossing grenades into the room and elicited heated debate that went into the Congressional Record, especially around the agreement that this was NOT to be discussed until 1808. I recommend this book but especially this chapter (The Silence) to everyone who would like to see the masterpiece of political maneuvering executed by the Party of Thomas Jefferson, to use the petitions to the actually ELIMINATE the 1808 sunset agreement and put legislation about Slavery off-limits in perpetuity. [But the Trade and Slavery did come up several more times and inevitably led to the Civil War/War Between the States.]
sourmash DEC 15, 05:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

There was a strong abolition movement in the North creating demands at the Constitutional Convention that almost sank the formation of the United States. The 3/5th clause was a political concession to keep the South at the bargaining table, as was the 20-yr moratorium on the General Government passing legislation restricting the slave trade (i.e. 'the Migration or Importation of such Persons '..., see Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 1). Hopeful Northerners, overlooking biology, thought that Slavery was going to peter out by that time (1808) under the natural weight of its inefficiencies. Unfortunately, they could not have been more wrong. Joseph Ellis in his book, Founding Brothers, looks at the history of the First Congress being immediately (Feb 11, 1790) presented with petitions submitted by Quakers from New York & PA to abolish the Slave Trade. The following day the Pennsylvania Abolition Society presented a petition to abolish both the Slave Trade AND Slavery itself. These were the equivalent of tossing grenades into the room and elicited heated debate that went into the Congressional Record, especially around the agreement that this was NOT to be discussed until 1808. I recommend this book but especially this chapter (The Silence) to everyone who would like to see the masterpiece of political maneuvering executed by the Party of Thomas Jefferson, to use the petitions to the actually ELIMINATE the 1808 sunset agreement and put legislation about Slavery off-limits in perpetuity. [But the Trade and Slavery did come up several more times and inevitably led to the Civil War/War Between the States.]



Interesting that the abolition was being pushed from the uber conservative Christians. I hadn't realized that before now. Something people don't know about is that the slave auctions and stockades were always closed on Jewish holidays. To this day Charleston South Carolina has a large population of them dating back to the days of legal slavery when they were deeply entrenched in the importation, brokering, holding slaves since they owned many of the slave ships taking rum to Africa and bringing humans back to the Americas and then the auction houses to sell them.

NPR did Larry David's ancestry on their show Who Do You Think You Are. His great grandfather owned 2 slaves in Louisiana.

During the War there was also this as found in Wiki

"General Order No. 11 was a controversial order issued by Union Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862, during the Vicksburg Campaign, that took place during the American Civil War. The order expelled all Jews from Grant's military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce Union military corruption, and stop an illicit trade of Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run "mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders."[1] In the war zone, authorized by the Lincoln administration, the United States licensed traders through the Army, which created a market for unlicensed ones. Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war. "
rinselberg DEC 15, 05:58 PM
Looks like Israel is on the verge of a national election. I guess early in 2021?

If the vote goes against Netanyahu, will he do a "Trump" and demand a--dare I say it?--a "jew-over"..?

I just wanted to get into the spirit of the topic here. The previous message. The subtext.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-15-2020).]

sourmash DEC 15, 06:16 PM
It's called "history". We're talking the Union, slavery, the War for States Rights. The subtext of someone's post is pay no attention to all of history.
rinselberg DEC 15, 06:39 PM
There are many facts. Many many facts. Historical facts. I am of the opinion that the people of the city of Washington DC and the District of Columbia deserve the same level of representation in the federal government as people who reside in the 50 United States.



I kind of doubt that the provisions in the Constitution for the District of Columbia make the kind of (good) sense in the modern context as they did when the Constitution was enacted.

Mostly though, I just wanted to have my "wisecrack." In the service of Euphrosyne.