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2.5
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SEP 21, 01:50 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Boondawg:
I used to believe that was possible.
I don’t anymore.
In my experience, people would rather die than admit they may have been wrong, let alone change.
I get the feeling introspection is incredibly painful for some.
They will prop-up the ridiculous rather then admit vulnerability in their understanding.
Mores the pitty.
P.S. I am also “people”.  |
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It is possible, you just cant tell when or if it happens in may settings. Important not to give up.
But also to be ready.[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-21-2020).]
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2.5
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SEP 21, 01:53 PM
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It is important to bring this all to use, and vote for those who will support individual citizens rights and freedoms, and responsibilities.
 [This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-21-2020).]
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Jonesy
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SEP 21, 01:55 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Boondawg:
I used to believe that was possible.
I don’t anymore.
In my experience, people would rather die than admit they may have been wrong, let alone change.
I get the feeling introspection is incredibly painful for some.
They will prop-up the ridiculous rather then admit vulnerability in their understanding.
Mores the pitty.
P.S. I am also “people”. |
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I think you have become jaded due to your experience here. These types of discussions (political, religious, social, ect) really should not be discussed over the internet. It's the worst possible place to do so. Simply due to their "internet persona".. Basically people aren't who they really are over the internet. They tend to be extreme, over exaggerated, over confident versions of themselves. Meaning its highly unlikely they would speak to, and treat you the same way they do on the internet, than they would if you where face to face with them in conversation. Basically its easy to be a toxic A-hole to someone when they are 100's of miles away, and there is no fear of repercussions for unacceptable behavior. (keyboard warrior mentality) ...
And I'm not afraid to say some folks on this very forum may pop in here and try to say the opposite. "Nah i would be just as big a jerk in real life!"..
I also would not be afraid to call that person a liar!
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maryjane
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SEP 21, 05:30 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Jonesy:
I disagree, I never said anything about forcing someone to do anything. Or forcing someone to comply with an idea or ideology at all. I believe you misinterpret what i was saying, and you have a bit of a contradiction in your statement there. If you believe talking with someone and giving your perspective is "forcing" them to think and comply, wouldn't your idea of providing information and hoping they consider it, be the same thing? Providing information is the same thing as giving your perspective, how is one forceful and the other not? Maybe the word "reflect" instead of "think" would have been a better word to use. It's not about changing someones mind, or "winning" an argument or debate. It's simply, as you said, provide information by talking civilly (even if they are not), and hope that makes them reflect hard about their idea or position. Trying to change someone mind on just about anything is nearly impossible, and is not an effective strategy at all, i agree. You also don't have to be, nor are likely to be present when said person actually calms down, sits and really reflects about their... whatever.. Most humans tend to do that when they are alone with their own thoughts. And your likely never to hear the person admit they changed their mind, or even modified it, but you see it in their behavior.
Trying to force anyone to think anything is silly, trying to change someones mind during a heated topic of conversation is impossible. But if you can, at the very least, get them to later reflect over their "whatever", then, you at least have a chance, that the person will slowly, sometimes painfully so, adjust, modify, or in rare cases, even change their way of thinking to something better. Does that mean they will just flip and come over to another persons ideas? No of course not, and hopefully not, as that's not the goal, plus who's to say that other "whatever" is right either? But if it brings two opposing forces closer together, even if only slightly, I would call that progress..
Humans in general fear change, and are painfully slow to evolve, patients is the key.
Baby steps! It's better than nothing, and considering how humans are, as i stated above, that's the best one can hope for.
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You said "make them think".
I don't much care at all whether they think or not. I offer information, and in hopes that they do consider it (think about it) but I'm not going to try to "make" them do so.
You can lead an adult to information but you can't make them think
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Jake_Dragon
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SEP 21, 06:49 PM
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cliffw
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SEP 21, 07:49 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Jonesy:
I usually try to attempt to make someone think.
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| quote | Originally posted by Boondawg:
I used to believe that was possible.
I don’t anymore. |
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Your red bar is proof that you are wrong,  .
Jonesy, good post. No one is going to change the opinion of another if they don't try. There are many ways to skin a cat and you only get one chance.
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Jonesy
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SEP 22, 08:52 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by cliffw:
Your red bar is proof that you are wrong, .
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Um no, all my red bar proves is that some people on this forum have no control over their emotions, and would rather silence someone and remove them, and live in a echo chamber, than attempt civil discourse. Sounds very SJW leftists to me, and there are very very few left leaning people on this forum, and none that i would consider SJW level leftists. So its obvious that what red i have in my bar came from the forums more conservative members, so what does that say about them?
But your not a stupid person Cliff, you already knew that. I have no doubt the red in your bar, also came in the same manner as mine.
Especially since i rarely, if ever, get involved in political conversations here.. I may call some of you out from time to time when you get nasty at one another, hoping you will all talk like grown adults instead of little children, usually to no avail. I'm willing to bet you don't even know what my political leanings are, oh im sure you'll try to guess, but you really have no clue, because I've never really shared them, and hopefully you don't even care what they are, because i sure don't care about yours or anyone elses, as it should be. But i do admit to calling some of you out from time to time when you act like idiots to each other, or when a bunch of members like to gang up on another member, and some people here apparently don't like being called children while they act like one, so hence my red bar.. But toxic vitriol happens so often here now, i don't even bother. I'm just waiting around to see who survives the eventual purge of the forum that your all bringing upon yourselves. Should at least be interesting.[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 09-22-2020).]
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2.5
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SEP 22, 09:53 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
I don't much care at all whether they think or not. I offer information, and in hopes that they do consider it (think about it) but I'm not going to try to "make" them do so.
You can lead an adult to information but you can't make them think
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I believe what you said is what he meant.
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Jonesy
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SEP 22, 10:07 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by 2.5:
I believe what you said is what he meant. |
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Pretty much yeah.. I probably just worded it wrong in my original post.. I do that sometimes.
Basically not trying to "make" as in "force" one too think.. As in hold them down and tell them to "think you bastard!".. lmao..
But provide good credible information, if the person your giving the information to has a brain, they are gonna think about it, they won't be able to help it. Even if its later on, away from other people, which is usually the case.
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maryjane
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SEP 22, 12:32 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Jonesy:
Pretty much yeah.. I probably just worded it wrong in my original post.. I do that sometimes.
Basically not trying to "make" as in "force" one too think.. As in hold them down and tell them to "think you bastard!".. lmao..
But provide good credible information, if the person your giving the information to has a brain, they are gonna think about it, they won't be able to help it. Even if its later on, away from other people, which is usually the case.
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Believe me, I too have often had that private train of thought as well Jonesy.
(no doubt, others have had the same thought in regards to things I say as well)
I do believe we are mostly on the same page..
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