 
     |
| Why Does Texas Have Its Own Power Grid? (Page 15/17) |
|
Raydar
|
JAN 23, 09:37 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Have plenty of generating capacity. The problem arose when generators went offline due to icing of instrumentation freezeup in the Nat Gas supply lines. It cascaded from there as more demand was placed on the rest of the statewide generators. Even the nuke plant a Bay City shut down because of instrumentation problems from low temps. If the NG suppliers can't provide fuel, the engines that run the generators won't keep running.
|
|
For whatever reason, the generation was offline. There were (apparently) no contingency measures in place. Hence my comment about "outside sources" of electricity needing to be available. If your generators kick off, for whatever reason, alternate sources can be switched in.
But yeah... Even if the generation / transmission is happy, if the local (distribution) lines are laying on the ground, whoever is fed by those lines is out of luck.
But generation or transmission being offline can take down huge swaths of people. Not just blocks or neighborhoods, or towns.
With all of that said, I seem to remember that there was a transmission line that crossed the Mississippi river that had failed for some reason, ending up in the river.
That failure cascaded and tripped out several other lines.
So... ya' try, I suppose.[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-23-2022).]
|
|
|
|
maryjane
|
JAN 24, 12:22 AM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by Raydar:
For whatever reason, the generation was offline. There were (apparently) no contingency measures in place. Hence my comment about "outside sources" of electricity needing to be available. If your generators kick off, for whatever reason, alternate sources can be switched in.
|
|
Do you have an alternative source of gasoline if your Fiero runs out and all the stations in your state are closed?
If the generators in Ga run out of fuel, do they have an alternative pipeline to feed them?
Will they run on water?
Will they run on whiskey instead of diesel or natural gas?
|
|
|
|
82-T/A [At Work]
|
JAN 24, 08:58 AM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Do you have an alternative source of gasoline if your Fiero runs out and all the stations in your state are closed?
|
|
Funny thing. When we were hit with Hurricane Wilma (I think it was), I had to siphon gas out of my Fiero to put it into another car so we could drive North after the storm. All the gas stations were out of power, so they couldn't pump gas, even though they had gas in the tanks.
Eventually, they mandated that every gas station needed to have a backup generator in South Florida, in order to power the pumps in case of power emergencies. The state government gave tax breaks, interest free loans, and grants to help implement the policy. But seemed to work, getting gas was never really a problem again (at least as a result of power loss).
Most in South Florida were out of power from about 2 weeks to 1 month.
|
|
|
|
maryjane
|
JAN 24, 03:30 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Funny thing. When we were hit with Hurricane Wilma (I think it was), I had to siphon gas out of my Fiero to put it into another car so we could drive North after the storm. All the gas stations were out of power, so they couldn't pump gas, even though they had gas in the tanks.
Eventually, they mandated that every gas station needed to have a backup generator in South Florida, in order to power the pumps in case of power emergencies. The state government gave tax breaks, interest free loans, and grants to help implement the policy. But seemed to work, getting gas was never really a problem again (at least as a result of power loss).
Most in South Florida were out of power from about 2 weeks to 1 month. |
|
I been there and done it. Hurricane Rita and Ike were bad in that regard; several weeks each time for most of us. Rita went to the East of me so I got the lesser of the wind but the East, is where my elec power came from so off it went. Hurricane Ike passed within 10 miles of me and killed power as far up as Nacodoches. Harvey was not quite as bad for me since many places still had power assuming you could get to the station thru high water but since we had plenty of warning, I had stockpiled plenty of generator fuel.
|
|
|
|
Raydar
|
JAN 24, 04:07 PM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
Do you have an alternative source of gasoline if your Fiero runs out and all the stations in your state are closed?
If the generators in Ga run out of fuel, do they have an alternative pipeline to feed them?
Will they run on water?
Will they run on whiskey instead of diesel or natural gas?
|
|
My Fiero is a bit different from... whatever state you may want to discuss. I do keep gas on hand, just in case. I also have other vehicles I can siphon from. (I don't really get the comparison. You can't really store a practical amount of AC current. And any form of electricity isn't "portable", as a practical, long-term consideration. Batteries and jump boxes notwithstanding.)
Generators in GA. You mean the power company's generators?
I don't see it happening. It's too diverse. (Still some coal. Hydro, Natural Gas, Nuclear, Combined Cycle, and a small percentage of "green energy".
But we have Tie Lines (interconnections - lots of them) between GA and the Carolinas (off of our footprint), TVA (also off of our footprint), Florida (off of our footprint) and Alabama (part of our system.) Probably some others that I don't even know about.
That's not even counting the interconnections to the west that are available to Alabama and Mississippi.
We buy and sell electricity every day, depending upon surplus or deficits. I would venture to say much more than Texas does.
Granted, those interconnects probably are not enough to run the entire state, but I'll bet they can support a substantial portion of it.[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-24-2022).]
|
|
|
blackrams
|
JAN 24, 04:16 PM
|
|
|
|
|
maryjane
|
FEB 03, 08:37 AM
|
|
A new article explains the fuel issue.
| quote | ERCOT has spent the past year preparing for this week’s freeze, requiring power plants to weatherize, inspecting that weatherization, and fining any company that doesn’t meet standards. They’ve made estimates of how much power Texans will use, and overcompensated with power generation on stand-by. Officials say the grid is ready, and this week may put those preparations to the test.
“I’m paid to be nervous,” ERCOT chief executive Brad Jones said in an interview late Wednesday. But he expressed confidence in the electric power industry ahead of what the Electric Reliability Council of Texas expects will be peak electricity demand for this storm: 72,000 megawatts of demand at 8 a.m. Friday.
But there is one crucial unknown that, beyond an act of God, could make or break the grid this week: natural gas production. The Electric Reliability Council of Texas has precious little insight into how much gas the pipelines will carry to power plants, if there are any production problems, mechanical problems, or unexpected demand for residential customers, who get priority over power plant customers.
That means, no matter how accurately ERCOT forecasts grid conditions, no matter how well power generators wrap up their plants for the freeze, the grid could still go down if natural gas suppliers fail. Natural gas suppliers aren’t required to weatherize their equipment, and no one knows how likely a natural gas failure might be.
Jones has some ideas about how to change this problem, and natural gas folks should listen.
First, he wants to set up a gas desk at ERCOT that would monitor information about supply from pipelines across the state. That way, ERCOT could react to any fuel problems right away.
With a gas desk, ERCOT “would have an operator on shift 24 hours, 7 days a week, that would let us know of any restrictions on our gas system,” Jones said.
Second, Jones wants the Railroad Commission, which regulates oil and gas production, to set up an independent market monitor to observe the oil and gas markets and ferret out any wrongdoing. The Public Utility Commission hired an independent market monitor to patrol the wholesale power market a few years ago. |
|
https://www.dallasnews.com/...trust-in-the-system/
|
|
|
|
blackrams
|
FEB 03, 08:44 AM
|
|
It would appear that someone (in a position of responsibility) learned, listened and is doing something about it.
None of us can predict accurately "Acts of God" but this effort to exercise the six "Ps" is a great indicator of good leadership.
Hard to knock these efforts.
Rams
|
|
|
|
82-T/A [At Work]
|
FEB 03, 09:06 AM
|
|
| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
I been there and done it. Hurricane Rita and Ike were bad in that regard; several weeks each time for most of us. Rita went to the East of me so I got the lesser of the wind but the East, is where my elec power came from so off it went. Hurricane Ike passed within 10 miles of me and killed power as far up as Nacodoches. Harvey was not quite as bad for me since many places still had power assuming you could get to the station thru high water but since we had plenty of warning, I had stockpiled plenty of generator fuel.
|
|
Florida seems to be "known" as the state that's hurricane prone, and people say... 'Don't move to Florida, cause hurricanes!'
But it seems to me that the whole Gulf Coast region (which I like to refer to as the Gulf of Florida)... is far more prone to hurricanes and landfall. I mean... without doing ANY research whatsoever, I'd have to assume Florida and the Gulf is shaped the way it is *because* hurricanes over millions of years have shaped the land as it is.
I haven't looked at the tectonic map, but I don't think there's a plate there, that Florida is drifting off like Baja and California is from the West Coast... that all seems to have been carved out from hurricanes and storms.
We had Andrew, which I wasn't there for, that was the most devastating Florida has had in nearly 100 years. But it seems every season there's a catastrophic hurricane in the Gulf... usually with landfall somewhere in Texas through Mississippi.
But yeah, I've seen your flood pictures... that sucks. You're not still there are you? I remember you moved? You're in Cleveland now, which if I'm not mistaken is North East of San Antonio... like between Austin and SA, but closer to SA?
|
|
|
|
sourmash
|
FEB 03, 10:29 AM
|
|
I was born in the rain on the Pontchartrain
Underneath the Louisiana moon
I don't mind the strain of a hurricane
They come around every June
High black water, a devil's daughter
She's hard, she's cold and she's mean
But nobody taught her it takes a lot of water
To wash away New Orleans
|
|
|
|
Can't wait for Yellowstone, Season 5 and now the wife is liking 1883; 