Panera Tried Socialism, It Failed (Page 14/16)
pokeyfiero MAR 04, 06:05 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

It really does seem like proponents of socialism think they are talking about something completely different than what socialism is and where it leads.



No one is actually talking about the same thing and what either side is talking about isn't the truth either.


Just too simple to understand.

Not a democracy. Not socialist nor capitalist.

A Republic,

administered by representatives of the citizens. NOT RULED but administrated according to our constitution.
What makes us special is our view of equality for all to have a vote on who and how they choose to represent them.

The reason something this simple doesn't rock the socks of half the population is we are too big for this simple. The premise is and always will be good but in practice it is more complicated for everyone regardless of partisan side.

First, We are a semi socialist Nation built from a union of States.
A Republic.
Not all States wield the same influence in sheer population. Nor do they all have the same wants and beliefs.
Our single common trait is the Constitution and the need to have a say in our own fate. Our government is designed to protect us.
Protect us from even ourselves. Of course therein lies the the crack that perverters will seep into.

A Republic is a balance between Mob Rule(Democracy) and Anarchy(Lawlessness). It is an adversarial situation where the silent majority lose their representation and the loud minority demand it.
Vigilance is mandatory for success.

Such as it is we also are not Capitalist(Pigs) Nor are we socialist(Commies).

What we really are and we can attribute all of our success and even our not so shiney moments to is a Self Serving Nation designed to be as fair as can be to allow the people to guide our balance over the best and the worst of all social designs.
But only if we are strong enough to pay for it. That requires freedom,will and most of all INCENTIVE. TAKE ANY ONE OF THESE AWAY AND ALL FAIL.

We are essentially free to fail!!!!!

96% of us do not understand the reality of our circumstance. They deal in absolutes screaming and promoting capitalism! or socialism! When in fact they really don't want or understand what that means. Mostly it is just a shot of extreme vitriol directed against and equally stupid and unthought out rebuttal.

We can't hear each other because we are screaming at each other.
We are screaming at each other because we are completely defensive about our emotional ideals.
We are defensive about that because most of the people are uneducated and uninformed about the realities and mechanisms that create balance for all.

People that think socialism or capitalism is bad or good without anything in between are just as dangerous as people that believe they can have a prosperous society with only one or the other.
Most reasonable and intelligent people agree that most things dealt with in absolutes are a byproduct of ignorance and/or insecurity.
Ignorance because they don't know how to cope without a strict guideline and or insecurity that they are not able to be responsible.

The only difference between communism and socialism is you are forced into communism you vote yourself into socialism but both lead to the same fascism"
Both pure capitalism and socialism are a self regulating system that eventually lead to "Totalitarianism and prohibits opposition parties, restricts individual opposition to the state and its claims, and exercises an extremely high degree of control over public and private life."
One might ask why favor Capitalism if both are bad systems?
First: Socialism is a byproduct of capitalism. With Capitalism we as individuals are able to OWN our own property. Versus the state or a duke or Earl owning it and we do as we are told and produce with that property as a means of survival.
Socialism is a rebuttal to people more adept to building wealth than others. A societal necessity to keep a certain level moral standard for living conditions.
All men are equal by law but not necessarily by their creator.

Without the strong the weak would die. Everyone is weak in the eyes of someone else so be careful who you decide deserves life and who doesn't lest you be decided upon yourself.
randye MAR 04, 09:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

Our government is designed to protect us.
Protect us from even ourselves.




If you sincerely believe that the United States government exists, in any measure, to protect you from yourself, then we can comfortably disregard everything else you said.

However, I am interested in hearing precisely what your definition of socialism is, particularly with regard to this "mixture" of capitalism and socialism you allude to.

It would also be helpful if your definition does NOT center around the currently fashionable horseshit of a list of things that this country does for the common good, such as a military, police, fire departments, roads etc. that virtually ALL countries do and have done for centuries before that penniless bastard Karl Marx ever set pen to paper in 1848.

While you decry the ignorance of others as to what the true nature of socialism, (or capitalism) is, I'm not sure that you know either.


quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

96% of us do not understand the reality of our circumstance.




97.3% of all statistics are completely fabricated to support a weak argument.


quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

Socialism is a rebuttal to people more adept to building wealth than others. A societal necessity to keep a certain level moral standard for living conditions.
All men are equal by law but not necessarily by their creator.

Without the strong the weak would die.



Karl Marx said the same thing in 1875, but he said it more succinctly than you: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

You aren't talking about equality of opportunity.

You want equality of outcome.

You and Ol' Karl would enjoy each other's company it seems.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-04-2019).]

randye MAR 04, 09:13 PM
The words of the man who knew best:




pokeyfiero MAR 05, 12:58 AM

quote
Originally posted by randye:


Karl Marx said the same thing in 1875, but he said it more succinctly than you: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

You aren't talking about equality of opportunity.

You want equality of outcome.

You and Ol' Karl would enjoy each other's company it seems.



If that is truly what you got out of what I said then there is no point in conversing with each other.
That is actually preferential to me anyway as I think you are an bully and a complete ******* .
2.5 MAR 05, 01:59 PM
Rande, I believe pokey is simply attempting to lay out what is going on, big picture stuff, some could look at what was said and assume certain opinions which he likely does not hold.

Relating to the Gov's job. Security is pretty close to what they are tasked with. When they do much more than that they are generally over reaching. The issues lie in the definitions of many of these words and how they can be twisted.

-

Honestly related to Threedog, and anyone else the shoe may fit...when good points get made, its my observation that usually the genuine Left believer leaves. Possibly not to come back and even read what is posted, but who knows.
2.5 MAR 05, 02:00 PM
Pokey, for sure the many perverters do seem to want to take away freedom and incentive.
randye MAR 05, 05:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Rande, I believe pokey is simply attempting to lay out what is going on




It is impossible to tell what anyone is "attempting to lay out" if they refuse to stand and defend their own thesis, but instead stamp their feet, call you a "bully" and other names and then run away at the very first challenge to their words.

That is the behavior of children, (like "Threedog").

It is not the behavior of a rational adult.


quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Honestly related to Threedog, and anyone else the shoe may fit...when good points get made, its my observation that usually the genuine Left believer leaves.



Just like what happened in this case?

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-05-2019).]

pokeyfiero MAR 05, 08:01 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Pokey, for sure the many perverters do seem to want to take away freedom and incentive.



There is that for certain and even those that honestly care are not able to communicate or have the skills to be reasonable.
Many like RandyE treat discussion like an adversarial battle only recognizing complete submission and agreement to their insecure perspective.
We fear adversaries and that makes us insecure. Stop treating each other that way and we remove the obstacle that keeps us from listening to each other.
randye MAR 06, 01:29 AM

quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

Many like RandyE treat discussion like an adversarial battle only recognizing complete submission and agreement to their insecure perspective.




BULL

I am very secure in my well reasoned "perspective" and, unlike you, I am willing have it challenged and tested in vigorous debate, and, again unlike you, I don't run away and refuse to defend my position while claiming the other guy is somehow responsible for that failure.
Tony Kania MAR 06, 11:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

There is that for certain and even those that honestly care are not able to communicate or have the skills to be reasonable.
Many like RandyE treat discussion like an adversarial battle only recognizing complete submission and agreement to their insecure perspective.
We fear adversaries and that makes us insecure. Stop treating each other that way and we remove the obstacle that keeps us from listening to each other.




You are looking at too narrow a spectrum. You are angry at RandyE for the issues caused by another. You found fault with his methods, but have not mentioned the insanity that just so happened to cause the conversation Pokey. Many side one way or the other and run with it. You seem to have done just that.

Not to mention all of the comfortable discord you espouse during each of your random visits to this forum.

Really not looking to argue with you here, just observing. I know how you feel about my views. We can discuss those if you would like.

You have been rated a positive since day uno. I see no reason to change that. None at all FYI. You have done wonderful things in your life and I recognize many of those feats. This is just a discussion of here and now, not days gone.