Panera Tried Socialism, It Failed (Page 10/16)
randye FEB 23, 09:33 PM
randye FEB 23, 10:22 PM
blackrams FEB 23, 10:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
I would point to universal healthcare that has not tanked the economies of European countries or Japan or Korea or Canada.

I would point to taxation polices that work in Scandinavian and European countries that have not turned them into third world hell holes.

I would point to the utter lack of exodus of the super rich from countries that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich.

I would point(as I have in this thread) to the increased social mobility in these economies, where poor people actually have a fair shot at getting rich.

I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies.
We like to think that America's super-capitalistic attitude is what allowed America to thrive during the second half of the twentieth centuries. However we forget that just about every other country that could rival us economically had been invaded, split, or bombed to complete and utter ruins. It is really easy to be on top when your infrastructure is intact and others have been decimated. Once countries began to rebuild their infrastructure/politically stabilize, they caught up quick.




So, you would tear it all down.
I'm sure you won't be surprised if I disagree.

Rams
randye FEB 24, 12:40 AM
Socialism proceeds from a notion that one collective consciousness controls the desires, goals and actions of the entire population. It is only under such a delusional assumption that one can imagine everybody working for nothing and getting everything free, that you can take money from businesses and expect them to continue functioning as before.

References to incentives and individual achievement mean nothing to those obsessed by their imaginary collective consciousness, because their "collective mind" will simply dictate the desired behavior. Ludwig von Mises called such people "daydream dictators." They're always thinking, "If only everybody would..."

Of course, the only way to fully implement the plans crafted under such miserable ideas such as socialism is through force. Violence, terror, mass murder. If one's ideology denies individual consciousness in theory, it then must exterminate it in practice.

Marxists created a nine-digit body count during the last 100+ years and they show every sign of desiring to continue in that tradition.

EXAMPLE:



YES, She actually just said that.

"Inside every leftist is a totalitarian screaming to get out."

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-24-2019).]

E.Furgal FEB 24, 03:44 AM

quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
This is not evidence. These are not facts.

Of course there are happy people in America. However the percentage of people who are happy in America is far lower because our system mistreats so many people that are not you.

You are thinking of this as a "I want to make you unhappy and me happy", no, I want to make everyone happy, educated, and able to work at a living wage.

Also, I am plenty happy living here, I am not happy how much other people are not. I can criticize this country while liking it, there is no harm in that. Just because you don't like some American policies or leaders or reps does not mean you do not like America.




since when are opinion polls. fact.

We get it you hate the US of A. why you still here. pack your bags and go to one of those socialist countries you find so dreamy.

I can poll a jail and get data that they are unhappy.. That doesn't mean anything .
Or poll a bunch of triggered lefties that are still unhappy that killer didn't win and trump is THEIR leader.
SCARY PART IS YOU TEACH YOUNG MINDS.
Doug85GT FEB 24, 01:42 PM
I have thought about this failed experiment. I think people do a disservice by calling it socialism. This was more an experiment in product valuation and ethics. Eating at Panera and the payment were voluntary. Claiming this is equal to socialism makes socialism look better than it is.

To make a true socialism experiment, we would first have to tax everyone $1500/month for Panera meals. The menu would be reduced to a single set course for each meal with no deviation allowed. Districts would be drawn up and everyone in a district would be assigned to eat at a Panera in the district. Eating outside of your district would be prohibited. Moving between districts would require registering in your new district and being assigned a new Panera to receive your meals. Eating at a Panera outside of your assigned district and failure to register is punishable by fines and possible jail time. Eating at other restaurants would be allowed but it would be paid out of pocket and no tax credit given.

Who would sign up for that program?
cliffw FEB 25, 06:45 AM

quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
Just because some things worked for you, doesn't mean they were the best for the country.




quote
Originally posted by cliffw:
If you truly wanted to "do the best" for the country, you could ...

If you truly wanted to "do the best" for the country, you could ...



Threedog, just what is it that you do, that is the best for the country ? Serious question.

Your yearnings for a more socialistic country / world, are under the guise that it would give a leg up to people who don't have the advantages that some others have. Forcing those that have, and all of us, to pay for it.

Again I ask you, what do you do that is best for the country ?
What do you do that is best for your community ?
What have you done to improve anyone's life ?

I don't like to pat myself on the back, or brag, and I hardly ever do. Perhaps I should more often, if only to inspire others.

The wife and I have been the primary caregiver for a mentally challenged girl / woman since 1998. We took over this act of compassion from her mother, who adopted two such girls. We provide a modest, decent home, and are involved in her daily life. We provide a daily structured life for her which also includes life educating experiences. Such as supporting her in quests she wishes to follow which includes Special Olympics, bowling, group field trips to places such as the zoo, museums, and other such venues. We also provide her with many opportunities which are pleasurable and also build her self esteem.

Giving her true social mobility. It comes from / with a considerable cost, in both time and money.

The wife is faithful in tithing 10% all all of our earnings, in pre-taxed dollars, to the church and still give monetary offerings to other church sponsored endeavors (missionaries are high on my wife's wishes). The church does a lot of good, of all kinds, for the poor and needy. You will find many church going folk participating in many endeavors, including weather disasters.

We also donate to a handful of other charities. St Judes and Shriners Hospitals are two of my 'causes'. I first stated being a volunteer firefighter for my community in 1996. I have done many things for the good of individuals, my community, my city, my State, and my country.

What have you done ? What would you think if I expected you to pay for what I do ?
If I forced you to do what I do ?

Back to the thread topic. "Panera Tried Socialism, It Failed" . They really did not, because they couldn't force the rich to pay more, or any really.


quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
Welfare systems kill motivation and promotes dependence.




quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
You have no proof. These are just beliefs that you want to believe because it is what you have been told.



Would you like to double down on stupid ? Panera gave away free stuff and people were takers. I would bet that those whose income is derived from holding up signs saying "will work for food" ate there and did no work.


quote
Originally posted by Threedog:
I would point to the utter lack of exodus of the super rich from countries that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich.

I would point to many states in this country that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets and have seen increased social mobility and stronger economies.



There is not a lack exodus of any country that have progressive, strict taxation polices that heavily tax the rich. There are many States that have passed many liberal/leftist laws with large social safety nets that have a good percentage of exodus. All fleeing to States with less burdensome taxes which have social safety nets.
Threedog FEB 25, 11:01 AM
In 1970, 92% of 30 year olds earned more than their parents did at that age. Now, that number is below 50%.


What has happened since then? The complete destruction of the lower and middle class by a drastic cutting of social safety nets and cutting taxes on the rich resulting in a deteriorating infrastructure and government systems.

Putting people in the lower class does not encourage them to get out, that is not how human psychology works no matter how badly you want it to.

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3


Also, the world is not the same as it was when you grew up. Opportunities for advancement are nowhere near what they used to be.


Also, if socialist policies are so bad, why do we constantly give farmers massive amounts of government handouts?
Tony Kania FEB 25, 11:47 AM

I am still happy. Huh? By your links, I should be a miserable wreck, but alas, I am just happy.

Do enjoy your day. Take a drive. I am not your problem.
olejoedad FEB 25, 11:51 AM
American middle class growth was spurred by the economic boom that occurred as a result of North American manufacturing (US and Canada) providing the materials needed to rebuild the world. Prior to the two World Wars, America's middle class was nearly non-existent.

Technological innovations from war technology created new industries, and created the need for education in the technologies.

As the rest of the world rebuilt, manufacturing was restored in the rebuilt countries, and technologies were exported or stolen and transferred offshore.

The middle class was created as a result of WWII and was not sustainable without ever-expanding markets. The move by Nixon to open up China to trade was a result of the recognition of that need for a larger customer base for our products.

Lower demand for North American products, the off-shoring of production and poor performance by Congress to protect America's advantages had more to due with the degradation of the middle class than the lack of safety nets or social welfare programs.