Attack on my software forum - reason PFF was closed for a while (Page 15/19)
TG oreiF 8891 FEB 10, 07:27 PM
He's slippin' took him three hours.

P.S. Cliff, did you add spellcheck (<-not a word, apparently); or is that my computer somehow? Awesome job Cliff!

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1988 Fiero GT
Cleveland Fiero Club

USFiero FEB 10, 09:59 PM
It seems to me that the parties involved, or allegedly involved on the word of one or two, don't have any assets to claim. And, as brought up in other threads, if you win a monetary settlement, don't expect to collect. Aaron may very well get expelled from school for his actions, (eighteen is an adult in this country), the minor needs to publicly apologize or whatever, maybe public service warning kids about these type of consequences, and the other two... well, a criminal conviction should do. And permission to post that on Cliff's forum, like hanging a dead crow on the fence to keep the others away.
With a minor involved, I wouldn't set out to ruin his life, but making an example of him seems right. I guess Aaron will end up seeking a new school/career path. Shawn et al, unfortunately will probably end up with a judgement on them, which should affect them financially for a long time - like when they apply for a loan, or a background check for a decent job. Squeeze one, see how fast they give up the others. Maybe they can be restricted legally from getting on the web?
Anyway, I'm in. Announce the Paypal address for 'clean up the internet legal assault team' and I'll contribute.
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John DuRette
Custom 85 SE/87 Coupe
"Kinda makes you nostalgic for a Members Only jacket"

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 02-10-2007).]

Fiero5 FEB 10, 11:09 PM
Cliff,
I would assume that your clients that received the PMs/e-mails are aware of computer hacking?
Since you have contacted them explaining what happened about your site being hacked by a couple of teenagers, it would logical to assume your clients would fully understand and so ultimately not cause you really any harm other than maybe the embarrasement of being hacked?
I agree that Aaron and anyone else who was involved should be punished for hacking and disrupting your business.
I would also like to give my support in the hope that you are successful in being able to teach them a very valuable lesson.

Steve
Back On Holiday FEB 11, 12:18 AM
ack, all these pages. sorry, just noticed this as work + selling ebay stuff to clean garage out more I didnt notice anything wrong til I saw mention of Robert 2 talking about aaronz34 or whatever his name is.

Cliff, do you have that paypal account setup, and if so can you post it here.

and imho pm's should be used with valid information, as much as these guys need to be punished, putting info on here could lead to a very angry fiero owner going off the deep end and doing something horrible.

also, do these guys THINK? if god forbid cliff closed PFF because of the economic loss (his family comes first), did aaron and his friends realize it only takes 1 deranged Fiero owner to erase them from existance? I know someone else would take over the PFF hosting, but some might take it as the end of PFF and totally lose sight of reality.... going off the deep end.... and making it their lifes goal of distroying the distroyers.
end of rant, good luck Cliff, and to those people helping him with the lawyers/searching/the guy with the OSU ties, thank you also... a big + in my book.
HellYes FEB 11, 12:29 AM
(Aaron2.Hate) 139.78.10.1

He was doing this from one of their machines, not remotely using the connection. I've never seen a subnet with .1 public.

He's actually kinda smart, and stupid at the same time. Anyone smart enough to know what to do to him, wouldn't be stupid enough to attack a college. He has made this his employer's business though.

Here's an interesting one: I'm just noticing, while sweeping that network, that the 139.78.10 range is not even active. Out of 65,536 possible addresses, not one in that range. Just seems odd to me.

Did anyone actually get the machines name so I can parse the results to see if it's active at a different address?

(BTW, there is nothing even bordering on illegal about sweeping like this. Lame little 12 year olds do this all the time.)
Cliff Pennock FEB 11, 05:32 AM

quote
Originally posted by Fiero5:

I would assume that your clients that received the PMs/e-mails are aware of computer hacking?
Since you have contacted them explaining what happened about your site being hacked by a couple of teenagers, it would logical to assume your clients would fully understand and so ultimately not cause you really any harm other than maybe the embarrasement of being hacked?



Just a clarification, that forum was not hacked. They simply registered as a new user and made a mess of it by posting a link to RFT in every single thread, and by creating a bunch of new topics with pr0n images and the usual "here's Cliff and his wife" messages. If that was all there was to it, I would have simply cleaned up and went on. But they (Aaron) took it a step further by not only posting the "it's my software" message in the forums, but PM-ing it to every single member.

I have sent an explanation email to everyone who received the PM and got quite a few reactions from people telling me they understand fully what happened. A few have even offered their (legal) help. But to be absolutely honest, I'm not worried about those people. Some of the people who received the PM are big clients. With others I was negaotiating the possibility of OEM versions of my software. And even though they tell me they understand, I really have no idea how this will affect them. But I guess you can imagine for yourself what the consequences can be.
atleastitruns FEB 11, 07:23 PM
The general rule of thumb for choosing which court of law to sue in is whichever one you [Cliff, in this case] are most comfortable/have the most experience in. Therefore, if your lawyer [should you be able to find one who will take the case] thinks that you can win, I suggest you sue in the Netherlands' courts. This is where your servers are based, this is where you are based, and this is where many of your clients are based... therefore making it easier for them to testify. [I was able to find about 5 members on your business forum member list from the Netherlands]

Also, it means that if the case goes to court, the kids being prosecuted will have to travel all the way to the court, which is probably not going to happen. It would also make their lawyers very expensive... and if the kids aren't able to pay for them, their lawyers will probably suggest they enter a plea of "Guilty" and be done with it. [The language barrier/hurdle might be a bit of a challenge for the kids as well.]

However, since there is an entire ocean in between you and the "supposed" perpetrators, this will all probably be settled out of court, over fax machines. Yay technology!

Janell
TK FEB 11, 07:51 PM
This falls under the heading "You don't have to win, you only need to make them wish they hadn't done it".

I'm betting you are well on your way and it's still too early to let up the pressure.
Unsafe At Any Speed FEB 11, 08:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by atleastitruns:

The general rule of thumb for choosing which court of law to sue in is whichever one you [Cliff, in this case] are most comfortable/have the most experience in. Therefore, if your lawyer [should you be able to find one who will take the case] thinks that you can win, I suggest you sue in the Netherlands' courts. This is where your servers are based, this is where you are based, and this is where many of your clients are based... therefore making it easier for them to testify. [I was able to find about 5 members on your business forum member list from the Netherlands]

Also, it means that if the case goes to court, the kids being prosecuted will have to travel all the way to the court, which is probably not going to happen. It would also make their lawyers very expensive... and if the kids aren't able to pay for them, their lawyers will probably suggest they enter a plea of "Guilty" and be done with it. [The language barrier/hurdle might be a bit of a challenge for the kids as well.]

However, since there is an entire ocean in between you and the "supposed" perpetrators, this will all probably be settled out of court, over fax machines. Yay technology!

Janell



How would they be required to show up to the court hearing? The Dutch can't make an American appear in their courts. And vice-versa. I think if/when any action is taken it will have to be done stateside.

[This message has been edited by Unsafe At Any Speed (edited 02-11-2007).]

Hudini FEB 11, 10:43 PM
The Netherlands has an extradition treaty with the US. It would take some doing, but they CAN be made to appear.