Trinten's SBC/F23 build - The work has begun! (Page 48/69)
Trinten FEB 23, 05:38 PM
Hey Will,

This one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/p...08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There is still a sale, but it's not as deep of a discount as I got it for last month. Mike said the biggest catch with this type of alignment system is that the surface the vehicle is sitting on has to be spot-on-level, or it can throw things off. We'll see how well it works! He wants to dial it in with this tool, and then take it to an alignment shop and see what it turns out.
Trinten MAR 23, 08:57 PM

February 2020, switching to an LS4 platform

Damn... it's been a month!

Mike has done some little stuff, and I have some pictures, but nothing critical yet. Mike had been busy wrapping up some other projects. In the meantime, I've been continuing to educate myself on LS stuff, and buying parts.

This should shock no one --- I went overboard. Yes, I learned that the LS engines, including the LS4, can get into some crazy horsepower before they're at risk (Brandon Furches has a near stock rotating assembly, just aftermarket pistons. Other stuff too, but stock rods, crank, heads - excluding valvetrain).

So, when a guy that is competitively racing with his LS4, and has dyno'd out over 800 HP, is running on stock internals... why didn't I?

The simple answer is, I am more than happy to throw money at the engine to help reduce the chance of it grenading. I don't have the tools, skill, or knowledge of people like FieroGuru, Mike, CowsPatoot, Chug, Will... the list goes on. And as interested as I am in cars and like to learn, I have limited free time. So if something on this car goes sideways, I want it to be something that even a novice like me can look at it and go "Oh. That's broken!" bust out my impact and other hand tools, take it off, order a new one, and put it on.

Which means the engine has to be fairly bullet proof. Not only for the hassle of taking it out, but diagnosing it, tearing it down, fixing it, etc.

So, here is what I bought for the LS4

A NOS 24x crankshaft (I managed to track one down after MUCH googling and emailing).
Forged 6.125 connecting rods (yes, they are a touch longer, Mike said that even that tiny bit of extra length is worth it)
D.S.S FX-Series forged pistons (yes, I bought the right ones to compensate for the longer rods -- I did my homework!)
CompCams 232/234 duration @ .050" and .595/.598 lift with LSA of 112
Appropriate dual springs with tool steel retainers with a max lift of 0.675
LS7 Hydraulic rollers
DOD Delete stuff
Mahle and Calico bearings, all coated with a variety of stuff depending on which bearing it is.
Katech C5-R single roller chain
Chain dampener (the chain tensioner that was in the engine was in pieces. Apparently that's a hit or miss thing.)
Melling high pressure, standard flow oil pump
New oil pickup tube girdle (the two bolt style)
ARP bolts as far as the eye can see....
I scored on a "inexpensive" set of D585 coils.
All the gaskets, of course... but that's normal stuff.

I think I bought more stuff for the engine, but I can't think of what right now. What I still need to buy is the push-rods, we need to get things together and take measurements so we can get those. And then settle on an intake. I've already sourced the injectors, but they are out of stock of the size I want.

OH! That brings me to something awesome Mike did on his Grand National and that he's going to do on the Fiero. He went and found a flex fuel sensor, put it in his Grand National, tuned it (he's running FAST XFI)... and it now runs like a flex fuel vehicle. Since that Brandon guy was running E85 when he put down his 840 HP, I figured flex fuel was the right way to go for me, too. So Mike agreed. So I have a NIB flex fuel sensor and a metal bracket for it. The 0411 PCM has all of the PIDs for Flex fuel, and other folks have turned the feature on.

Today Mike dropped off the heads, block, and rotating assembly to a machine shop for them to balance the rotating assembly, hot tank and magnaflux the block, hot tank the heads, install the springs and hardware, do a valve job on the heads, maybe some light portwork, and clean all the boltholes/threads. A couple other little things.

[This message has been edited by Trinten (edited 03-24-2023).]

Will MAR 24, 02:03 PM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Melling high pressure, standard flow oil pump



I'd go the other direction... is there a high volume pump?
LS's are pretty scienced out in terms of what works, though.

My take is that you're going to have a turbo with dedicated high pressure oil and a lot of heat in the engine bay. You will probably want a higher volume pump to keep the hot idle oil pressure above 15 psi. Also, are you running an oil cooler?
Trinten MAR 24, 04:08 PM
Hey Will,

Thanks for the feedback and question. In my reading, some LS guys with turbos were having issues with high volume pumps... I don't recall enough details right now to repeat what the issues were with confidence. That was the reason for the high pressure, standard volume though. Mike didn't check me when I told him which oil pump I bought, I will double check with him on it. Rockauto is really good about doing exchanges for stuff, especially if the box hasn't even been opened.

We do want to run an oil cooler. And to help reduce engine bay temps, I want to modify one of the decklid vents to mount a fan to it, to help get that air out of there.
fieroguru MAR 24, 08:38 PM
The stock LS4 oil pump is a factory high volume pump for use with DoD.
Trinten MAR 24, 08:57 PM
Thanks FieroGuru!

The way Melling listed them was as x% higher pressure over stock, normal volume (The one I got). The other was x% higher pressure over stock, and y% higher volume. So I'm guessing they were comparing those numbers to what came in the LS4 to begin with?

I did some googling to try to educate myself! And yes, for those who are wondering, because of the AFM, the LS4 oil pump was a higher volume pump. So I guess it's good (?) that it's a higher volume pump, and that I didn't get the one that went even higher than that!
fieroguru MAR 25, 09:50 AM

quote
Originally posted by Trinten:

Thanks FieroGuru!

The way Melling listed them was as x% higher pressure over stock, normal volume (The one I got). The other was x% higher pressure over stock, and y% higher volume. So I'm guessing they were comparing those numbers to what came in the LS4 to begin with?

I did some googling to try to educate myself! And yes, for those who are wondering, because of the AFM, the LS4 oil pump was a higher volume pump. So I guess it's good (?) that it's a higher volume pump, and that I didn't get the one that went even higher than that!



Nearly all the aftermarket suppliers forget about the LS4, so my guess is everything melling is quoting is based on the LS1/LS6.LS2 as they were the first few on the scene that hot rodders were focused on. It used to be pretty common for turbo builds to switch to the LS4 oil pump for the increased flow. The pressure is pretty high as well (hot idle with 5w30 is 35 to 40 psi, 70+ psi as the RPMs climb) . Now with all the AFM/DoD LS engines, there are a lot of stock parts that are better and will be more reliable than aftermarket "upgrades".

I think that camshaft is more than a smidge too big for a 5.3L unless you are looking for a drag race only build. It is an aggressive cam for a 5.7 or larger engine, probably a little too much for the smaller 5.3.
I am going to be running Tick Stage 2 Turbo camshaft for the 4.8/5.3L engines, 219/223 .617/.595 LSA114+3


Trinten MAR 25, 11:37 AM
Ohh. That makes sense. I'll have to email the manufacturer and see if they'll tell me, or if their site has measured flow numbers, versus only percentage over stock.

Depending on their answer, I might wing up sending this one back for the high pressure + high volume pump. I'll also go through my browse history, see if I can find the thread(s) where someone had issues with the volume being too high, so I can be more articulate.
Will MAR 27, 08:47 AM
An unrestricted -6 line is generally too much oil for a turbo. The turbo oil feed usually needs a restrictor from -6 line.

And just get the block sleeved out to 4.125"... then it'll be 6,345 cc's with the 92mm crank... Voila! The cam gets smaller.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-27-2020).]

ericjon262 MAR 27, 09:48 AM

quote
Originally posted by Will:

An unrestricted -6 line is generally too much oil for a turbo. The turbo oil feed usually needs a restrictor from -6 line.

And just get the block sleeved out to 4.125"... then it'll be 6,345 cc's with the 92mm crank... Voila! The cam gets smaller.




I typically see -4 line used for turbo feeds, and then the drains as large as packaging allows.

------------------
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