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| 3500 swap - Manual transmission questions (flywheel/pressure plate/clutch) (Page 1/2) |
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Kameirocco
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JUL 22, 04:30 PM
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Bought a 3500 donor car that i'm going to strip out soon... i'm in the process of finalizing everything, but have one question that i haven't been able to easily find.
There are a good chunk of people saying anything in a fiero will bolt up without issue... that's fine and pretty well known.
However, in regards to the components, i'm not sure what i'd need.
I have the isuzu tranny (i know it's not great, but i've never really driven a fiero, and i'd like to get this on the road...)
i can't find specifics on the clutch i'd need along with the flywheel and pressure plate? I wont be ROMPING on it by any means.
From what i can tell... and yes, again, i know the isuzu will blow up if you look at it wrong.
Isuzu
- stock clutch
- flywheel and pressure plate from an 88 fiero (or 88 beretta 2.8, whatever)
- isuzu throw out bearing
Once i get through the fun of it and get time to swap the tranny...
F23
- Cavalier clutch (that came from that same car)
- same flywheel and pressure plate from above
Does that sound correct? whenever i've done swaps i've always taken the same transmission and engine and plopped them into another car,i've never mated anything together that wasn't supposed to be together.
Appreciate the help!
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Raydar
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JUL 23, 09:49 AM
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So... for the Isuzu, use a clutch and pressure plate for a V6 Fiero. It'll generally be larger than the Isuzu assembly.
Use the Isuzu release bearing.
(I did exactly this, when I blew up my Getrag (long story) with my 3.4, and had to swap in an Isuzu. Worked fine. The clutch was a Spec 2. However I wouldn't recommend it, for other reasons.)
The Isuzu will be fine if you don't shock load it. 2nd gear has proven to be the most common weak link.
My Isuzu was fine, bolted to the same 3.4 that shredded the Getrag. It depends upon how you drive it.
For the F23... I'm in a similar situation. It's getting bolted to a DOHC 3.4.
I'm thinking about ordering a heavy duty aftermarket clutch kit for the Cavalier. Since the stock Cavalier was only a 2.2, I'm not sure how well the stock clutch would hold up.
The stock 88 flywheel (or one from a 3.1 - which is essentially identical) should be fine.
Two issues with the F23. The clearance for the edge of pressure plate can be kind of tight. Using a Fiero pressure plate might be kind of "hit or miss". (Not to be punny.)
Also, the Fiero MC might tend to over-extend the release bearing. That should be less of an issue with a clutch designed for the Cavalier. But a regular Fiero clutch would likely require a spacer.
There are quite a few people here who have swapped in F23s. I hope some of them will jump in.[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 07-23-2025).]
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Kameirocco
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JUL 23, 04:07 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Raydar:
So... for the Isuzu, use a clutch and pressure plate for a V6 Fiero. It'll generally be larger than the Isuzu assembly.
Use the Isuzu release bearing.
(I did exactly this, when I blew up my Getrag (long story) with my 3.4, and had to swap in an Isuzu. Worked fine. The clutch was a Spec 2. However I wouldn't recommend it, for other reasons.)
The Isuzu will be fine if you don't shock load it. 2nd gear has proven to be the most common weak link.
My Isuzu was fine, bolted to the same 3.4 that shredded the Getrag. It depends upon how you drive it.
For the F23... I'm in a similar situation. It's getting bolted to a DOHC 3.4.
I'm thinking about ordering a heavy duty aftermarket clutch kit for the Cavalier. Since the stock Cavalier was only a 2.2, I'm not sure how well the stock clutch would hold up.
The stock 88 flywheel (or one from a 3.1 - which is essentially identical) should be fine.
Two issues with the F23. The clearance for the edge of pressure plate can be kind of tight. Using a Fiero pressure plate might be kind of "hit or miss". (Not to be punny.)
Also, the Fiero MC might tend to over-extend the release bearing. That should be less of an issue with a clutch designed for the Cavalier. But a regular Fiero clutch would likely require a spacer.
There are quite a few people here who have swapped in F23s. I hope some of them will jump in.
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Appreciate it, sir!
Reason i ask and want to verify, i've seen info all over the place
- "The fiero has a different bolt pattern for the flywheel, so it wont fit"
- "oh i know some guy who did that and it worked fine!"
Not really anyone i've seen mention it has done the swap themselves
so as long on yours you were able to do the following
a) bolt up an 88 V6 flywheel to the 3100
a.5 ) 3100 has the same mounting pattern on the crank, for the 31/34/3500 as whole, right... as it's just the internals that changed (bore/stroke, etc)
b) bolt pressure plate from the 88 v6 (which is neutral balanced)
c) use the isuzu clutch.
i think you just saved my bacon...
well, and a V6 starter....
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olejoedad
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JUL 23, 04:18 PM
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The flywheel is neutral balanced. The pressure plate and clutch disc have no influence on balancing.
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Raydar
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JUL 23, 06:36 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Kameirocco:
...
Not really anyone i've seen mention it has done the swap themselves
so as long on yours you were able to do the following
a) bolt up an 88 V6 flywheel to the 3100
a.5 ) 3100 has the same mounting pattern on the crank, for the 31/34/3500 as whole, right... as it's just the internals that changed (bore/stroke, etc)
b) bolt pressure plate from the 88 v6 (which is neutral balanced)
c) use the isuzu clutch.
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To clarify...
I installed a 3.4 Camarobird motor. I used an 88 flywheel. (87 and before are counterweighted, and will cause a nasty vibration, on anything other than an 87 and older 2.8.)
I am pretty sure that ALL 60 degree OHV engines (2.8, 3.1 3.4, 3400, 3500, and 3900) used the same flywheel bolt pattern. It has never come up as an issue, in all the swaps I've read about.
All except the 2.8 - through 87 - were internally balanced - i.e., no counterweights on the flywheel.
Any V6 clutch and pressure plate should work with the Isuzu. I know from experience that a V6 Spec 2 will work with an Isuzu. Others should as well. Isuzus in V6 Fieros have been a fairly common swap.
But you must use the Isuzu throwout bearing - with ANY clutch that you install with an Isuzu.
As Joe said, clutch disks and pressure plates don't care about balance. For the purpose of this discussion, ALL the balancing is a function of the flywheel and crankshaft.
Hope that helps a bit.
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ericjon262
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JUL 23, 07:12 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Raydar:
To clarify...
I installed a 3.4 Camarobird motor. I used an 88 flywheel. (87 and before are counterweighted, and will cause a nasty vibration, on anything other than an 87 and older 2.8.)
I am pretty sure that ALL 60 degree OHV engines (2.8, 3.1 3.4, 3400, 3500, and 3900) used the same flywheel bolt pattern. It has never come up as an issue, in all the swaps I've read about.
All except the 2.8 - through 87 - were internally balanced - i.e., no counterweights on the flywheel.
Any V6 clutch and pressure plate should work with the Isuzu. I know from experience that a V6 Spec 2 will work with an Isuzu. Others should as well. Isuzus in V6 Fieros have been a fairly common swap.
But you must use the Isuzu throwout bearing - with ANY clutch that you install with an Isuzu.
As Joe said, clutch disks and pressure plates don't care about balance. For the purpose of this discussion, ALL the balancing is a function of the flywheel and crankshaft.
Hope that helps a bit. |
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I can confirm (via a buddy who has a 3900/F23 Fiero) that the 88 flywheel works on a 3900 as well.
------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
I invited Lou Dias to trash me in my own thread, he refused. sorry. if he trashes your thread going after me. I tried.
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ericjon262
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JUL 23, 07:20 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Kameirocco:
Bought a 3500 donor car that i'm going to strip out soon... i'm in the process of finalizing everything, but have one question that i haven't been able to easily find.
There are a good chunk of people saying anything in a fiero will bolt up without issue... that's fine and pretty well known.
However, in regards to the components, i'm not sure what i'd need.
I have the isuzu tranny (i know it's not great, but i've never really driven a fiero, and i'd like to get this on the road...)
i can't find specifics on the clutch i'd need along with the flywheel and pressure plate? I wont be ROMPING on it by any means.
From what i can tell... and yes, again, i know the isuzu will blow up if you look at it wrong.
Isuzu
- stock clutch
- flywheel and pressure plate from an 88 fiero (or 88 beretta 2.8, whatever)
- isuzu throw out bearing
Once i get through the fun of it and get time to swap the tranny...
F23
- Cavalier clutch (that came from that same car)
- same flywheel and pressure plate from above
Does that sound correct? whenever i've done swaps i've always taken the same transmission and engine and plopped them into another car,i've never mated anything together that wasn't supposed to be together.
Appreciate the help! |
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what year is your car, and which 3500 are you swapping in?
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Kameirocco
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JUL 23, 09:29 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
what year is your car, and which 3500 are you swapping in? |
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i have an 86 SE, the 3500 is from a 2011 impala (LZE? i think?)
the flywheel is the part that is REALLY tripping me up. as i now cannot find an 88 fiero flywheel that isn't externally balanced... everything i see on rockauto has weight balancing holes drilled out.
Although, this looks like what i need... not sure how i didnt find this before!
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...040710-2-047121.html
does this look complete? if yes, i can find beretta ones real easy that look perfect (at least on rock auto)
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jelly2m8
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JUL 24, 03:03 AM
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If you use the Isuzu 5 spd you must use both the release bearing and clutch or a clutch built for that transaxle and 2.5L combination. The 2.8 pressure plate will make contact internally with the Isuzu bellhousing case. Spec make higher capacity Clutches for 2.5L 5 spd Fiero's ( isuzu )
Unless your not apposed to manually rolling it through that obstruction and then starting and don't mind the noise and aluminum shavings till it self clearances.....[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 07-24-2025).]
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Kameirocco
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JUL 24, 08:19 AM
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This is where I get confused…
So if the 2.8 pressure plate rubs, what pressure plate do you use with this setup?
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