Problems with clutch master or system holding pressure (Page 1/4)
handymanpat NOV 01, 09:32 PM
I have an 86 gt 5 speed getrag
I put a new slave cylinder on and the master looked like it was pretty new.
I replaced the entire clutch line because there had been a repair done to the line in the past and because the line for smashed when the paint guy lifted the car.
I have bled it by pressing having someone slowly press the peddle and I sit the open and close on the slave.
We did this at least 20 tiles.
We also put the car up on a very steep incline (twice the angle of a car on the typical ramps) and ran a quart of fluid through the system using just gravity.
We have also used the peddle pressing method while it was on the incline.
We have run a couple quarts of fluid through the system and each time we attempt to bleed the system I then take the car out for a drive.
At best it will make it around the block and by the time I make it back I have went from full peddle to hardly any pressure at all and I have lost the ability to shift at all.
As you can imaging after hours of doing this over several days and trying to read up about this topic and try different things I am hoping someone in here can offer some advice.
Also, the push rod is not leaking and I do not see leaking around the connections on the line.
What could be the problem?
Could the master be leaking and not it showing signs?
I would sure appreciate some advice.
I have bled lines before and never had problems like this!
Thanks Pat

------------------
pat moody

olejoedad NOV 01, 09:48 PM
Is there any sign of fluid in the interior up by the clutch pedal pushrod?
You will have to pull the carpet back a bit to see.
Did you follow the Archie method for clutch slave bleeding?
(That's the method we're you push the slave pushrod into the slave to eliminate trapped air)
Is the line leaking by the front lower frame rail where the braided flex hose is located?
(Most replacement lines have fittings there that may need to be snugged up)
handymanpat NOV 01, 09:58 PM
I did check the pushrod area under the dash and it was good.
The lines and connections all look good and I did read about the system about pushing the slave pin back in but when I took a look at trying to do it I saw that the rod appeared to be pressed completely in and I had even take the bleeder screw out of the slave and tried to get a prybar between the little push rod and the rounded arm it fit into but it did not seem to want to press back any further into the slave.
Could the master be going bad?
I am getting air spurts out when we peddle bleed it and once it hits a solid flow if fluid I think I have it and the nature enough, the pressure goes away BUT if I sit and wait and then press again sometimes I again have full pressure!!

------------------
pat moody

handymanpat NOV 01, 10:00 PM
Also, it's funny you ask about the braided line up there.
When I installed the line I somehow out a twist in that section and that was the reason I cracked the line open at the master so I could take the twist out of it!

------------------
pat moody

Patrick NOV 01, 10:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by handymanpat:

I did read about the system about pushing the slave pin back in but when I took a look at trying to do it I saw that the rod appeared to be pressed completely in and I had even take the bleeder screw out of the slave and tried to get a prybar between the little push rod and the rounded arm it fit into but it did not seem to want to press back any further into the slave.



If the slave push rod can't be pushed back into the slave while the clutch is disengaged, something's not right.

Did you by any chance replace the push rod with a longer one?
handymanpat NOV 01, 10:24 PM
Well, it is possible the pushrod is not correct.
I know when I took the old slave off I swear I put the same length rod in as I took off BUT there was confusion about the slave because I guess that there were two different ones that could be used?
I did have to buy a couple different slaves because the first one was different than the one I took off!
I do have two different style slaves that AutoZone says go on that 86 one is shorter than the other and won't mount into the car correctly.
The other thing is why is it holding pressure and shifting perfectly but then just loses pressure and then will pressure up again?
It is maddening!
You would not happen to have a photos of the correct slave?
Dang man, this should not be this big a deal. I just don't know what I am doing wrong!
This car drive perfectly before.
Thanks Pat,

------------------
pat moody

Patrick NOV 01, 10:40 PM

quote
Originally posted by handymanpat:

Well, it is possible the pushrod is not correct.
I know when I took the old slave off I swear I put the same length rod in as I took off BUT there was confusion about the slave because I guess that there were two different ones that could be used?
I did have to buy a couple different slaves because the first one was different than the one I took off!



I don't know offhand what the other issues are... but I do know that you've got to have some free play with the slave, otherwise you run the risk of the clutch never fully engaging (and therefore burning out the clutch and/or wearing out the release bearing).


quote
Originally posted by handymanpat:

I do have two different style slaves that AutoZone says go on that 86 one is shorter than the other and won't mount into the car correctly.



The problem with buying a slave for an '86 2.8 Fiero is that both a 4 and a 5 spd were available that year. Who knows what the parts catalogs show. If you indeed have a 5-spd Getrag, I'd suggest looking up the proper slave for your '86 Fiero in the '88 listings.

What's the brand and part number of the slave you've installed?

Not to give you a bad time, but when replacing the slave cylinder, it's almost imperative that you buy it from Rodney Dickman. The double seal on the piston of his custom made slaves makes a world of difference!



[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-01-2021).]

handymanpat NOV 01, 11:05 PM
I have been buying a bunch of stuff from Rodney lately so what's one more thing!
Hahahaha.
Tomorrow I'm going to go and look at the two styles I have.
I am very sure I have the shorter version you posted in the car now and I also the longer skinnier one I was telling you about (this is the one I had bought by mistake)
Now I'm very interested to know what is happening!
Could the wrong master or pushrod cause this problem?
Also, how would air be getting I to the system? Could it be getting in through the slave somehow?
I even bought a different bleeder thinking it was somehow letting air in!
Thanks Pat

------------------
pat moody

Patrick NOV 01, 11:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by handymanpat:

Also, how would air be getting I to the system? Could it be getting in through the slave somehow?



The original single seal slaves were/are notorious for allowing air to be sucked in, even if fluid wasn't leaking out. This is the reason why Rodney had double seal slaves made in the first place... and is why I suggest that replacement slave cylinders only be bought from him.
handymanpat NOV 01, 11:47 PM
I'm sure glad you guys know so much and are will to share with no us!
Rodney will have another order coming.
I will let you know what happens but guessing it is PROBLEM SOLVED!
Hahahaha.
I knew it had to be something simple and my new master sucking in air makes total sense!
Thanks Pat

------------------
pat moody