how do I use a 4x4 to support the front end?? (Page 1/2)
imacflier JUL 23, 02:09 PM
Good afternoon, All,

I am preparing to do a bunch of front end work, including power steering. It would be very convenient to stretch a 4x4 across the front end to do the work.

My attempts at search were not productive.

I can't believe it has not been done before, but can't find documentation.

Can one of you wiser and more experienced types show me the way? I suspect I will need to attach a 2x4 on top of the 4x4 to avoid damage to the parts where the beam passes. Not quite as simple as just putting a 4x4 across the jacking points in the rear.

Y'All have never failed me yet!

TIA,

Larry
Dennis LaGrua JUL 23, 03:42 PM
Jack up the front using a floor jack on the front cross member and use two strong jack stands to support the car. Lifting using wood might work but its risky and the pros never go that route.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

imacflier JUL 23, 05:14 PM
Dennis,

Thank you, but my interest is supporting the front with a wider, more stable base....jackstands at the ends of the 4x4, Not lifting with it.

Larry
pmbrunelle JUL 23, 07:29 PM





quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Lifting using wood might work but its risky and the pros never go that route.



Wood is risky now?

********************************************************************************

I've never actually removed a front crossmember from a Fiero, so I want to see what's the best way to do it.

Depending on how much span you are expecting between the jackstands, if the span is too much you may overstress the beam.

6x6 would be more conservative.
dremu JUL 23, 08:33 PM
The smart ass part of me says "How are you going to get a big honking truck like a Blazer or a Bronco under a Fiero?" (You said "4x4" ...

That said, I see where you're going with this. Short of any actual engineering analysis, I also say a 6x6 would be better suited. Even a Fiero weighs a bunch, and you want safety margin when you're under the car and banging on wrenches and things.

The one problem I see is that I bet you'd find the damn thing in the way more often than not. I did EPS on my car with jackstands under the control arms as far out as they would go. The car was safe and stable, and I had enough room to get to the steering rack and such. You start putting great bloody pieces of lumber across there and I don't think you'd be able to access the parts you needed to.

IOW, the only really good jack points up front are across the axle line, which is where you'll be working.

My .02, which in the current economy is worth both diddly and squat.

-- A
dremu JUL 23, 08:36 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:




Wood is risky now?

********************************************************************************

I've never actually removed a front crossmember from a Fiero, so I want to see what's the best way to do it.

Depending on how much span you are expecting between the jackstands, if the span is too much you may overstress the beam.

6x6 would be more conservative.



Speaking of engineering analysis, I wonder if you didn't actually do some for this. Is that horizontal piece a bunch of 2x4's stacked, or 2x2s?

Also, any particular reason why the A-frame looks like two 2x4s, vs using a single 4x4?

Kinda wish I'd thought of that a while back for some work I was doing ... and wood's cheaper than steel...

-- A
sourmash JUL 23, 08:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


Wood is risky now?



There's a joke in there about someone's mother, but I wouldn't stoop to that level.
imacflier JUL 23, 09:27 PM
OK,

Referring to the jacking diagram here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/136428.html

Does anyone see a problem with placing the support beam across the forward (just aft of the front tires) yellow rectangles labelled Frame/Body Contact Hoist?

With the rear tires on hydraulic ramps (seen here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hy...2057872.m2749.l2649) and the front beam supported at the ends on jackstands, it looks like it ought to be both stable and less in the way than anything else I can visualize.

Thanks for all the advice and concern, BTW. But last chance for more suggestions before I risk life and limb tomorrow (weather permitting, of course!)

Larry

[This message has been edited by imacflier (edited 07-23-2020).]

pmbrunelle JUL 23, 10:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by dremu:


Speaking of engineering analysis, I wonder if you didn't actually do some for this. Is that horizontal piece a bunch of 2x4's stacked, or 2x2s?

Also, any particular reason why the A-frame looks like two 2x4s, vs using a single 4x4?

Kinda wish I'd thought of that a while back for some work I was doing ... and wood's cheaper than steel...

-- A



Considering that I entrusted my life to this setup (with zero backups), I did take the time to analyse things where applicable.

The horizontal piece is a stack of six 2x4s glued together.

My stacked mega-beam: section modulus 47.2 in3 (the bigger this is, the stronger it is in bending)
4x4: 7.15 in3
6x6: 27.7 in3

I'm not saying that a 4x4 won't do the job, but it's not remotely in the same league as the solution I selected for myself.

For the A-frames, two 2x4s turned out cheaper than one 4x4, so that's what I did. Also, the thinner lumber was easier to cut with the chop saw.


quote
Originally posted by imacflier:
Referring to the jacking diagram here: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/136428.html

Does anyone see a problem with placing the support beam across the forward (just aft of the front tires) yellow rectangles labelled Frame/Body Contact Hoist?



Looks fine.


quote
Originally posted by imacflier:
But last chance for more suggestions before I risk life and limb tomorrow



Make sure your will is in order!
imacflier JUL 24, 10:06 AM
pmbrunelle,

OK, since it looks as if you have the skills and data for analysis: what about using RMP Hot Rolled Steel Channel, 2 Inch Width x 1 Inch Leg Length, 1/8 Inch Thickness (3/16 inch Thickness is also available). It would sure cut down on the bulk....and since I have rain for a few days....

TIA,

Larry