torque steer/alignment/mounts?? (Page 3/4)
cvxjet SEP 28, 09:00 PM
I may have a way you can test the struts without removing them; Undo the nut at the top of the strut (With the car on the ground) and then push the strut shaft down to almost flush with the mounting....then see if they both return up (This will only work with gas-charged struts) The one that is bad will not return as fast- or not at all.......Not as accurate but may show the problem...
theogre SEP 29, 02:31 AM
If you lowered the car then expect alignment problems and damage to rest of suspension at minimum.
Factory alignment specs are invalid for nearly all lowered vehicles but most will try to use them anyway. Even if the alignment works to save the tires, cut springs and other crap screws up the suspension often in big ways.
Strut and other "rubber" bumpers are only there as a rare use backup for preventing slamming unspung suspension into the rest of the car. If you cut them down, eliminate or they simple fail... Blown shocks, struts, and ball joints are only a starting point. I've seen more then enough lowered cars sitting in the middle of the road w/ pigeon toed tires because parts finally failed. Worse when happens on big highways because that can have fatal results to people in the dead car or anyone in the often huge traffic backup they cause.


quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
I may have a way you can test the struts without removing them; Undo the nut at the top of the strut (With the car on the ground) and then push the strut shaft down to almost flush with the mounting....then see if they both return up (This will only work with gas-charged struts) The one that is bad will not return as fast- or not at all.......Not as accurate but may show the problem...

Do Not do this.
You will have the spring move sideways the millisecond after the rod clears the hole and never get the rod thru the top hat without big headaches.
cvxjet SEP 29, 12:53 PM
Ogre- That is why I said down to "Almost flush with the mounting" That way it stays aligned/in the hole........My one bad strut gave me exactly the symptoms he is talking about- If I had pushed it down it would not have come back up at all- While the other side had full gas pressure and would return up rapidly...

This is a very distinctive problem, and I found absolutely nothing wrong- until I noticed the wetness on my strut- then pulled them (I have coil-overs, making it very easy to disassemble) and found that one was limp- no gas pressure and very little fluid.
fierce_gt OCT 01, 02:48 PM
i have no signs of leaking in the struts, and tightening that bolt has nearly completely solved the issue. i still feel the slightest of movement when i let off the accelerator suddenly, but it's very small. I doubt i would have noticed it if i wasn't looking for it now. i mean, that's also a pretty rare scenario that i would go from flooring it to completely off the gas.

I am still a little concerned about having over-torqued that long bolt. I treated it like a lug nut, so i'm sure its over 100ft-lbs. when i get some more time, i think the next step will be to re-torque those correctly, and check the torque on every other bolt i can reach. I feel like that is the most logically next step, considering the car was taken apart and rebuilt by somebody in their garage less than 5000kms ago. Just enough time for all of those bolts to wiggle lose if they weren't torqued just right. Especially after seeing how much of a difference a couple turns of one bolt made. What i'm still feeling could easily be a 1/4 turn of one bolt somewhere. worst case i know everything got re-torqued correctly
theogre OCT 02, 12:09 AM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:
Ogre- That is why I said down to "Almost flush with the mounting" That way it stays aligned/in the hole........My one bad strut gave me exactly the symptoms he is talking about- If I had pushed it down it would not have come back up at all- While the other side had full gas pressure and would return up rapidly...

This is a very distinctive problem, and I found absolutely nothing wrong- until I noticed the wetness on my strut- then pulled them (I have coil-overs, making it very easy to disassemble) and found that one was limp- no gas pressure and very little fluid.

You push down or simply falls down when strut has no pressure into the top hat the rod can twist/tilt the hat causing same problems. More so if top hat has problems too.
If you really want to this try loosening the big nut 1-3 turns then push down. That way nut and washer will control the rod and top hat.
But even Good pressure may not make it return right away but if you bump the car sim to infamous shock/strut test that often doesn't work should return then.
Problem is iffy struts may do same so isn't a good test.
fierce_gt OCT 02, 09:41 PM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

But even Good pressure may not make it return right away but if you bump the car sim to infamous shock/strut test that often doesn't work should return then.
Problem is iffy struts may do same so isn't a good test.



I consider the bounce test a way of testing for bad shocks but not a way to confirm good shocks

[This message has been edited by fierce_gt (edited 10-02-2019).]

olejoedad OCT 03, 07:37 AM
The bounce test doesnt work well on a Fiero....
theogre OCT 03, 04:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:
The bounce test doesnt work well on a Fiero....

It doesn't work on any vehicle for 50+ years.
Even crappiest OE shock/struts like Fiero and others have including WS6 RPO in them. WS6 and many other "handling packages" are BS Hype for Selling most cars. Many have very little for better handing etc.

Often doesn't even work for dead units unless So dead lost all oil, broken mounts, etc. Even then many vehicles may pass the fake test because of the bushings.

Many Believe and push the "Bounce test" because Monroe had a display in Many Thousands of parts/tire stores w/ a new shock and a "Dead" shock that uses levers to "Show" the difference until as lest the 80's.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
From http://www.obnoxiousantique...ising-store-display/
I think Monroe got sued for false ads and people got hurt w/ this thing. You still find it and related "displays" in some store and Ebay etc. Made a Strut Display that works the same in later years.
fierce_gt OCT 08, 11:58 PM
i dunno, i've pushed down on a fender and watched a car take 2 or 3 'cycles' before leveling off.

i don't think anybody is calling it a definitive test, it's just so easy, it seems like a logical place to start. like, if i think my tire is low, the first thing i do is push the sidewall. it's never going to tell me if i have the correct pressure, but in some cases it tells me i have a flat, or which tire to check first. i don't do it because it's an effective, accurate test. i do it because it takes 1 second and zero tools. it's only a bad test if you misrepresent what it can tell you.

my skepticism that the shocks/struts were my issue was primarily based on the visual inspection. but certainly the 'bounce test' didn't contradict that opinion. if after tightening all bolts, and exhausting the easier options, i still experienced a problem, then i would have no issue with checking out the struts. I just didn't want to mess around with something that would 100% throw off my alignment if i didn't have to. and in this case, that was a smart move, as everything seems to be just fine after tightening up the lateral link bolts.

i need to look into how to tighten up the steering now. i replaced the steering rack on my 86SE over a decade ago, and i remember thinking afterwards that i HAD to do that with my 85gt when i got it running again. It would be nice if i didn't have to replace an entire rack, but there's just enough play to annoy me. It's not bad, but i guess maybe 5-10degrees i can turn the wheel before the tires actually start turning.

it's tough, i've gotten used to modern steering, braking, and suspensions, and the stock fiero is showing its age in these regards. i would say especially the brakes. an upgrade there is definitely in my future
82-T/A [At Work] OCT 09, 04:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by fierce_gt:

So recently purchased a new 88gt that has been 'restored'. everything on it looks really good, and i've never owned a fiero that started and ran so well. but, it's not without it's issues.

here's the next one i want to deal with. i notice this most at highway speeds, let's say above 80km/h, but it's present below that speed too. when i floor it, the car pulls to the left, and when i let off the gas it jerks back to the right.




I had this *EXACT* issue with a totally different car, but the behavior was totally identical.

Short and sweet, it turned out to be ball joints.

The car in question was a 2008 Jeep Patriot 5-Speed. I started hearing a whining noise coming from the front right wheel hub, and took it to the dealership. Didn't have time to deal with it. Dealership *raped* me for something like $1,500 bucks. When I got it back, they told me they recommended changing out the control arms and ball joints. I said no, didn't want to have them charge me $4,800 for a 10 year old car. Drove it home... and when I'd accelerate, the car would pull to the left, and then the second I let off the gas, it would immediately pull to the right until the car coasted or maintained speed. It became somewhat scary.

I was pissed... so I said F-it, ordered new control arms and ball joints from Rock Auto, bought an impact gun, and took a day off work.

Got it done in an afternoon, and the car drove "amazing." Like a brand new car. I still took it to a tire shop to have an alignment done, but it really didn't need it, and drove fine before and after.

I know Fieros have issues with the tie-rod bars on the rear since (even as an 88) it's somewhat of a front wheel drive suspension adapted to the rear, but I'd seriously consider checking your front ball joints. Even the slightest bit of play can indicate a much more serious problem. I was expecting crazy play, but when I tested the play, I almost felt none.... but after changing out the control arms, it was perfect.

Maybe when the Fiero was "restored," they reused the ball joints, or the ball joints are failing prematurely? It could be any number of things on the front suspension honestly that could cause this... but what you're expressing seems to me much more likely that it's coming from the front. It's very distinct what you feel from the front versus the rear. In my experience, issues with the rear typically result in a squirrelly feeling in the rear, even the back end feeling like it's trying to come around.