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| 2nd Gen Headlight Pin Replacement (Page 3/6) |
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fierosound
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SEP 24, 11:43 AM
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theogre
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SEP 24, 03:39 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rodney:
You might take note that some do sell these pins for less. The reason probably is they are probably cast injection molded plastic (hopefully Delrin). Years ago you could buy these at auto stores and they were turned Delrin. Now they are cast Delrin which has a lot shorter service life than the (turned from Delrin rod) Delrin torque pins. Mine are turned Delrin.
This idea was introduced (I believe) by Ford many, many years ago for electric window motors. The pins are there for a reason. |
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I have your Delrin dowels/bushings/pins in the damaged gears shown above and didn't want a flame war because doesn't matter in the end who made them. Some have use your set, Ecker's, and others then after they blow the output shaft joint or destroy the gear. Some have post here and elsewhere w/ problem use Delrin in the past, others just finally replace w/ Pro Rebuild or New units or, like many Gen1 users, they gave up fixing and sold the car or use other things like often illegal flush mount HL.
"You might take note that some do sell these pins for less. ... " Pin Cost is irreverent here. Dorman is ~$8 each set of 3. A bit softer plastic/Delrin might matter... Could be harder then OE but maybe not hard enough to cause problems. Again... It is a pain to replacing pins but safer to the motor and cheap to you then fixing dead gears or output shaft. Having a Known fail point is better then fixing gears, etc.
Ford/etc Window motors can look the same to most people but be made different in many ways and have no problems using Delrin. So Might be Good for whatever PW but not be for Gen2 HL motors.
Worse when HL Module has even minor problems... GM design have tolerance for amps drawn from the motor then add years of use. If the Module is a bit late kill power at the of travel and you use hard pins in the gear then likely = quick death to the gear teeth or output shaft. Even the HL lift itself as part of linkage is under high load to stop the motor. If you fix the motor bottom end very strong to last then you can fry the module and/or the motor from high current. (Depending how bad the electrical problem... the OE pins may not fail fast enough to matter.) If module can't "see" the amp spike when motor stalls the you hope the timer run out before you have big problem or a fire. Quick Example: Cliff repairing fried MOSFET thread. Blew a FET, replace w/o much checking why and blew again and burn the board too. (Fusible Links C & D are not to protect the HL motor system but like most others are to stop the Battery from dumping 200+ amps in a short circuit.)
I have not tried Dorman PN 74410... They are part of or related to 747412 kit etc. (Many parts sources have them at local stores.)
Some say there too soft (google other places) for HL motors but could have other problem making them fail. Like could be area get hot from weather/sun and radiator. This guy (YT vid, He's using big BB... ouch.) said Some Dorman pins are defective... In short, You want Clear pins not "milky" plastic.
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carguy8t8
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SEP 24, 10:16 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rodney:
I have one set of these black rubber bump stops. I believe I got them from a headlight motor that has the plastic intermediate gear. I think these are certainly very rare. Most had the green bump stops and the metal intermediate gear. I still have a few of these NOS green bump stops. When I bought all the left over 84-86 headlight motor obsolete parts from the original manufacturer that made the 84-86 headlight motors they sent me only green bump stops.
Years ago I had many more OEM plastic gears than I had green bump stops. So I thought for a long time on what I could use to replace the green bump stops. One day I thought of using rubber O ring material. That seems to work fine. The FS should thank me as they copied my O ring idea and now also sell these bump stops made out of rubber O ring material.
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Rodney the black gen. 1 bump stops are from Firebird motors not Fiero. The durometer of the black ones are much softer than the green ones used in the Fiero's and the black ones do not crumble like the green ones. Every Firebird motor I have opened up has the plastic cog gear set, black bumpers, and a softer spring since the Firebird motors do not work against headlight doors with a torsion spring like Fiero motors. For this reason Firebird motors should not be used in Fiero's because the gears will not last and the limit switch may activate before the headlights are fully opened.
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fierofool
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SEP 24, 10:42 PM
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The black bump stops in my picture came from a Fiero. Motor removed and opened by me, personally. They may be the same as used in the Firebird, but they came out of a Fiero and a Fiero motor.
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carguy8t8
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SEP 25, 12:17 AM
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Are you sure the motor was original to the Fiero? Correct part number? I have rebuilt at least 500 of these motors over the years and Fiero motors always have green bumpers (or usually green bits) and the Firebird motors always have the black ones (still intact). Perhaps the motor originally came from a Firebird and the PO installed it on your Fiero. The motors look identical on the outside. Only difference is the part number on the tag and 85-86 Firebird motors have a single 3-wire plug.
I'm just trying to get accurate information out there and this has been my experience.
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fierofool
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SEP 25, 08:41 AM
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They came from a pullapart car. What year, I don't remember since I've been into so many and retrieved so many motors from them. I do lean toward it being one of the earlier years, though.
When I get a motor, I usually look to see if the brush set is good and check to see if there's any play in the arm attached to the through shaft. Tells me if the bump stops are any good. If the bump stops are good, the motor has probably had little use.
As was my practice, I opened them up to replace the gears with TFS plastic gears and my own version of bump stops and found the black rubber ones. Both motors had the black ones. The second set of black ones also came from one vehicle as did the green ones. It's possible but I think it unlikely that two different vehicles got a full set of motors from Firebirds. I never check the silver tags on the motors, so I don't really know.
The green bump stops are actually much harder than the black ones. They really feel like they're made of plastic. The black ones feel more like neoprene rubber.
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Rodney
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SEP 25, 09:05 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by fierofool:
The green bump stops are actually much harder than the black ones. They really feel like they're made of plastic. The black ones feel more like neoprene rubber. |
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The NOS green bumpers I have on hand are fairly soft. Especially the ends because they have the hole in the ends.
------------------
Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
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fierofool
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SEP 25, 09:33 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Rodney:
The NOS green bumpers I have on hand are fairly soft. Especially the ends because they have the hole in the ends.
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That probably means the ones I have are very old. I thought about using them to make a mold. Have you? They definitely will never go back into a motor. BTW, Rodney, I stopped using the plastic gears and recommend your metal ones to my customers. I'll rebuild with any gear my customer wants or provides, but I like the way your gear retains the bump stop. Being contained in a similar size cavity, I think it helps to prevent the bump stop from deforming, compared to being able to flatten in the normal open cavity of the plastic gear.
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Dennis LaGrua
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SEP 25, 10:46 AM
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I don't want to get into the argument but I have used the Delrin pins to rebuild the Gen II headlight motors myself. They work fine but I feel that this fix will not last with regular use as they provide almost no cushioning action . Now with the introduction of the new Cardone motors we have a back up in case that happens. I installed one recently and it seems to work fine but the headlight doors just go up slightly slower. Its a heavy duty motor assembly BUT it is Made in China so who knows???? ------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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theogre
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SEP 25, 05:01 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I don't want to get into the argument but I have used the Delrin pins to rebuild the Gen II headlight motors myself. They work fine but I feel that this fix will not last with regular use as they provide almost no cushioning action . Now with the introduction of the new Cardone motors we have a back up in case that happens. I installed one recently and it seems to work fine but the headlight doors just go up slightly slower. Its a heavy duty motor assembly BUT it is Made in China so who knows???? |
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China made likely new but to make sure... New or Rebuild?
Cardone Both and come w/ same warranty but...
AZ will honor most warranties w/ just phone # to id the buyer. (I returned 10+ year old dead starter last year and AZ still honored the warranty.)
Others will bi--- unless you show the receipt and some return to Same store location too.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-25-2015).]
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