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| Project 3400 Roller Cam Block (Page 64/82) |
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ericjon262
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JAN 25, 04:59 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Someone here posted flow #'s to show the intake neck restriction which you like to pretend I didn't have when the motor made 187/249. If 165 cfm ported heads has made 205rwhp and we know 185 cfm CNC ported iron heads exist, why do you still insist that the HEADS are the main restriction in iron head motors? The intake is the restriction - PERIOD...and also an unported exhaust system... Because I can't stick a long intake tube with an air filter infront of my Trueleo, I couldn't build a pressure stream to create the TPI effect. It's the same problem individual throttle body intakes have at low rpm because you have to spin those engines to ridiculous rpm to mask the problem. With the current Trueleo intake setup I have, my motor is a dog until about 3000 rpm. With the old setup it felt as torque-y as my 4.9 and a dyno has proven as such that the trade-off was 12 more rwhp with 16 less rwTq compared to the 4.9.
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ATQA.
why do intake flow numbers matter but cylinder head flow numbers don't?
please, show me where I said the intake manifold wasn't a restriction? All I've said is that the heads are also a restriction.
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lou_dias
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JAN 25, 07:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
ATQA.
why do intake flow numbers matter but cylinder head flow numbers don't?
please, show me where I said the intake manifold wasn't a restriction? All I've said is that the heads are also a restriction. |
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You blast my 187/249 dyno left and right for lack of "area" under the curve but refuse to accept it didn't make more at a higher rpm because of an intake restriction.
My head flow #'s don't matter because they are not what's holding me back.
Show me where you're not a troll?
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ericjon262
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JAN 25, 07:22 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
You blast my 187/249 dyno left and right for lack of "area" under the curve but refuse to accept it didn't make more at a higher rpm because of an intake restriction.
My head flow #'s don't matter because they are not what's holding me back.
Show me where you're not a troll? |
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you've attempted to dodge the question again, why does the intake flow matter and the cylinder head flow not matter? flow is flow, you've called me a troll over and over because I have said the 3x00 heads outflow your iron heads and thus, are capable of supporting more power, to which you respond that cylinder head flow numbers don't mean anything. now you're posting intake manifold flow numbers and claiming validity to airflow numbers. which is it? do flow numbers matter or not? it's hypocritical to say that one matters and the other doesn't.
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Will
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JAN 25, 07:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Because I can't stick a long intake tube with an air filter infront of my Trueleo, I couldn't build a pressure stream to create the TPI effect.
It's the same problem individual throttle body intakes have at low rpm because you have to spin those engines to ridiculous rpm to mask the problem.
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The intake tube doesn't do anything for "TPI effect". That's entirely in the runners. The velocity in the intake tube is too low. However, the combination of the plenum volume and the mass of air in the intake tube *CAN* be tuned to be a helmholtz resonator, but that's a zero sum game as the helmholtz effect helps at one RPM and hurts at a different RPM. It's best used to smooth out an otherwise lumpy torque curve which happens to have lumps and dips at the right places. I strongly suspect that the Fiero plenum is too small to use in this way.
There's nothing inherent in the throttle per cylinder setup that costs low RPM torque. In fact, throttle per cylinder intakes GAIN low RPM torque over common plenum intakes, as they reduce lope and firing order charge cannibalism. A prime example is BMW's S62 V8 from the E39 M5. It has throttle per cylinder, strong low RPM torque AND great top end power... and a HUGE plenum as well.
Throttle per cylinder is used to civilize extremely cammed up engines, so they typically gain torque vs. a common plenum, BUT they still won't be stump pullers.
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lou_dias
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JAN 26, 06:09 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
you've attempted to dodge the question again, why does the intake flow matter and the cylinder head flow not matter? flow is flow, you've called me a troll over and over because I have said the 3x00 heads outflow your iron heads and thus, are capable of supporting more power, to which you respond that cylinder head flow numbers don't mean anything. now you're posting intake manifold flow numbers and claiming validity to airflow numbers. which is it? do flow numbers matter or not? it's hypocritical to say that one matters and the other doesn't. |
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Actually its you that keeps dodging facts. You don't know what my heads flow yet I've made as much power as 3X00 engines. So what does it matter what my heads flow if I have a know restriction in my intake?
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lou_dias
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JAN 26, 06:11 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
The intake tube doesn't do anything for "TPI effect". That's entirely in the runners. The velocity in the intake tube is too low. However, the combination of the plenum volume and the mass of air in the intake tube *CAN* be tuned to be a helmholtz resonator, but that's a zero sum game as the helmholtz effect helps at one RPM and hurts at a different RPM. It's best used to smooth out an otherwise lumpy torque curve which happens to have lumps and dips at the right places. I strongly suspect that the Fiero plenum is too small to use in this way.
There's nothing inherent in the throttle per cylinder setup that costs low RPM torque. In fact, throttle per cylinder intakes GAIN low RPM torque over common plenum intakes, as they reduce lope and firing order charge cannibalism. A prime example is BMW's S62 V8 from the E39 M5. It has throttle per cylinder, strong low RPM torque AND great top end power... and a HUGE plenum as well.
Throttle per cylinder is used to civilize extremely cammed up engines, so they typically gain torque vs. a common plenum, BUT they still won't be stump pullers.
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Run an open throttle body on a stock cammed motor and let me know how that works out for you. That's the issue I have with where my TB sits.
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ericjon262
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JAN 26, 06:14 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Actually its you that keeps dodging facts. You don't know what my heads flow yet I've made as much power as 3X00 engines. So what does it matter what my heads flow if I have a know restriction in my intake? |
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last I checked, 206>187... so no you haven't produce more power. also, there's the area under the curve, again, the 3x00 engines blow you out of the water.
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lou_dias
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JAN 26, 06:42 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
last I checked, 206>187... so no you haven't produce more power. also, there's the area under the curve, again, the 3x00 engines blow you out of the water. |
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Every time I check, you're in denial of my intake restriction.
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ericjon262
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JAN 26, 06:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Every time I check, you're in denial of my intake restriction. |
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have I said the stock Fiero neck wasn't a restriction? I've basically been saying the whole Fiero heads and intake assembly sucks this entire time. please feel free to quote me where I have said otherwise.------------------
we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html
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lou_dias
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JAN 26, 07:56 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
have I said the stock Fiero neck wasn't a restriction? I've basically been saying the whole Fiero heads and intake assembly sucks this entire time. please feel free to quote me where I have said otherwise.
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What you do is go in circles. You compare my dyno to another dyno like everything is apples to apples. You're just here to troll. What someone else's motor dynos at is irrelevant to my motor because all I care about is making my motor perform to my expectations, not yours. I'm not going to switch cams, transmissions or heads. If you have nothing contructive to say STFU and go troll somewhere else.
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