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| Project 3400 Roller Cam Block (Page 61/82) |
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ericjon262
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JAN 20, 07:28 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
It's simple:
1) you replied to a quote about the intake, not the head
2) cylinder head flow is limited by how much vacuum an engine makes which is a function of it's displacement and RPM. So, over-size your ports too much you'll actually reduce your torque because your air velocity will slow down...
3) if I port heads to flow 250/224 in/ex and the motor makes 140 hp, what good was all that flow? |
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if you have that much flow and that little power, your tune is **** , or something in your peripherals is way out of whack. and I highly doubt you'd get your heads anywhere near those numbers anyways.
| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
When are you going to realize that all you do is troll?
Further more, La Fiera's CNC ported heads flow as much as stock aluminum heads and he removed the vane that balances the flow around the valve stem...which reduces flow on iron heads.
My heads have already made as much torque as any V6/60 and considering I'm running a stock cam, that's pretty amazing. Once I throw the old intake on with the new DAWG mod, I expect more since my peak was at 3600 with the stock intake neck.
Would you like me to go troll your turbo 3500 build? |
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I really don't care what you do, it's your time. hell, you'd be doing me a favor by keeping the thread out of the archives. there is a link to the thread in my signature.
edit: I bet it eats you up that this will be the top post on your build thread for the next couple of months...
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we're in desperate need of a little more religion to nurse your god-like point of view...
Built not bought... Because bolt-ons don't.
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 01-20-2014).]
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lou_dias
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JAN 20, 09:02 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
if you have that much flow and that little power, your tune is **** , or something in your peripherals is way out of whack. and I highly doubt you'd get your heads anywhere near those numbers anyways.
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I love how you act like you haven't read any of my thread and keep making blind assumptions.
| quote | I really don't care what you do, it's your time. hell, you'd be doing me a favor by keeping the thread out of the archives. there is a link to the thread in my signature.
edit: I bet it eats you up that this will be the top post on your build thread for the next couple of months... |
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Actually, I'll never post in your thread simply because I have no interest in your build and I'm not a troll. Only wish you'd do the same here.
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ericjon262
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JAN 20, 09:33 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by loudias
I disregard my 187/249 dyno as much as my 149/167 dyno as much as SuperDave's 275/249 dyno. |
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
Dyno #'s are the only thing that matter. I've already done 187/249 on a mustang dyno by maintaining a TPI effect. I don't need much more than that.
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what does all this mean? dynos are just a number, they don't make a car fast or slow.
blind assumptions? is that because I said doubt instead of won't? I know they won't, not unless you subject them to a deeper vacuum on the flow bench, and even then, I'm not sure you could go that deep.
I have read most of your build, and I haven't acted otherwise. you posed a hypothetical situation about heads flowing 250 on the intake and not making power, and I countered to say the tune or peripherals must be wrong. your heads don't flow 250 on the intake, so that wouldn't have been me referencing your tuning issues, that would have been me making a factual statement regarding a hypothetical situation.[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 01-20-2014).]
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lou_dias
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JAN 20, 09:44 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
what does all this mean? dynos are just a number, they don't make a car fast or slow.
blind assumptions? is that because I said doubt instead of won't? I know they won't, not unless you subject them to a deeper vacuum on the flow bench, and even then, I'm not sure you could go that deep.
I have read most of your build, and I haven't acted otherwise. you posed a hypothetical situation about heads flowing 250 on the intake and not making power, and I countered to say the tune or peripherals must be wrong. your heads don't flow 250 on the intake, so that wouldn't have been me referencing your tuning issues, that would have been me making a factual statement regarding a hypothetical situation.
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But you ignore the blatant facts of my build:
1) when I made 187/249, I had a poor base tune on a stock Fiero ECM and an intake neck restriction...
2) when I switched to a higher flowing intake and a better tune and 7730 and DIS and L98 TB, I lost power
3) if I'm making more power than a stock 3400 and more power than a stock cammed 3400 with some mods, clearly HEADS are not a limiting factor in my build despite your constant ramblings...
Ask yourself why DeathStarr/SuperDave sold his ITM intake? Same reason I'm switching back to the stock one with an extra mod - there is such a thing as TOO MUCH FLOW. When you have too much flow, you have to spin the motor too fast to stabilize the system and lose your idle/streetability. With the stock 3400 cam, there is no reason to shift past 5500 rpm. My heads don't need to outflow stock GEN3 aluminum heads and as demonstrated, ported iron heads can flow as much as stock GEN3 heads. So again, why are you trying to prove?
Once again: when I have a cam that peaks at 6000+ rpm, I might give a crap about the flow of my heads...and would switch back to the higher flowing intake and TB...[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-20-2014).]
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lou_dias
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JAN 20, 01:14 PM
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Let me expand on my situation:
When you oversize your intake compared to your exhaust, the pressure difference during cam overlap can push exhaust back into the cylinder head. This has been the source of the detonation I've been having since going to the Trueleo intake. It's robbed my of 20% of my torque and given me drivability issues.
I got to dig up the stock vacuum tubes before I can drop the car off to get the intake (now DAWG-modded) swapped back. However, in the process of a house and I'm scaling back my spending until March.
If I ever REBUILD this motor, I'm going to go a little larger on the exhaust ports and go with an aftermarket cam and switch back to the Trueleo setup. I just doesn't make sense for my configuration right now.
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ericjon262
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JAN 20, 10:17 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
But you ignore the blatant facts of my build:
1) when I made 187/249, I had a poor base tune on a stock Fiero ECM and an intake neck restriction...
2) when I switched to a higher flowing intake and a better tune and 7730 and DIS and L98 TB, I lost power
3) if I'm making more power than a stock 3400 and more power than a stock cammed 3400 with some mods, clearly HEADS are not a limiting factor in my build despite your constant ramblings...
Ask yourself why DeathStarr/SuperDave sold his ITM intake? Same reason I'm switching back to the stock one with an extra mod - there is such a thing as TOO MUCH FLOW. When you have too much flow, you have to spin the motor too fast to stabilize the system and lose your idle/streetability. With the stock 3400 cam, there is no reason to shift past 5500 rpm. My heads don't need to outflow stock GEN3 aluminum heads and as demonstrated, ported iron heads can flow as much as stock GEN3 heads. So again, why are you trying to prove?
Once again: when I have a cam that peaks at 6000+ rpm, I might give a crap about the flow of my heads...and would switch back to the higher flowing intake and TB...
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you take your engine, which is far from stock by any stretch of the word, and claim it's better because you're almost matching the power of a stock 3500 without the same area under the curve???
I can't say for sure why superdave got rid of the ITB setup, I can say that ITB's are notoriously a ***** to tune, and that he had been working on the tune for quite a long time.
reversion? really? now we're just grabbing at straws.
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lou_dias
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JAN 21, 08:29 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
you take your engine, which is far from stock by any stretch of the word, and claim it's better because you're almost matching the power of a stock 3500 without the same area under the curve???
I can't say for sure why superdave got rid of the ITB setup, I can say that ITB's are notoriously a ***** to tune, and that he had been working on the tune for quite a long time.
reversion? really? now we're just grabbing at straws. |
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It's really hilarious to watch you compare my motor with a stock 3400 cam to a 3500 with a custom cam with .102" more lift. Then you guys claim I'm the crazy one. You might as well compare an L98 to a LT5.
If you compare 3400's with a stock cam, I'm making more power than stock ones and as much as others with some mods. Not as much as others with more mods...
A 3400 has a larger intake than a 3.4 swapped Fiero with higher flowing heads. All I did was attempt to match that and shocker the power is in the same ball park and not infinite amount more like you AL worshippers like to claim. If you want to justify all the effort you did to swap your motor - great. For people who want to look as close to stock as possible with as little rework, there is this way...so quit trolling about it.[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-21-2014).]
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Will
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JAN 21, 12:10 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
For people who want to look as close to stock as possible with as little rework, there is this way...so quit trolling about it.
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If your ported heads are the equal of stock aluminum heads and your making basically stock 3400 power with a stock 3400 cam, then you're going to continue to get stock 3400 results.
So if looks really are that important to you, great. Just remember at Sekonk that you go there to look good (or stock or... something), while someone else goes there to WIN.
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lou_dias
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JAN 21, 12:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
If your ported heads are the equal of stock aluminum heads and your making basically stock 3400 power with a stock 3400 cam, then you're going to continue to get stock 3400 results.
So if looks really are that important to you, great. Just remember at Sekonk that you go there to look good (or stock or... something), while someone else goes there to WIN. |
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Seekonk's oval track competition isn't won simply on engine power. If it was, I would have never won 2nd place 8 months ago.
This thread is about the car I have a 3400 roller cam block engine in. I have a different thread for my 4.9 car. My stock Formula car has no thread.
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ericjon262
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JAN 21, 12:46 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by lou_dias:
It's really hilarious to watch you compare my motor with a stock 3400 cam to a 3500 with a custom cam with .102" more lift. Then you guys claim I'm the crazy one. You might as well compare an L98 to a LT5.
If you compare 3400's with a stock cam, I'm making more power than stock ones and as much as others with some mods. Not as much as others with more mods...
A 3400 has a larger intake than a 3.4 swapped Fiero with higher flowing heads. All I did was attempt to match that and shocker the power is in the same ball park and not infinite amount more like you AL worshippers like to claim. If you want to justify all the effort you did to swap your motor - great. For people who want to look as close to stock as possible with as little rework, there is this way...so quit trolling about it.
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I wasn't comparing your engine to a modded 3500, I was comparing it to a stock 3500. I did say that, and you quoted it. again, look at area under the curve (average power), a stock 3400 or 3500 blows you out of the water.
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