$100 brake upgrade (Page 33/43)
fieroguru JUN 04, 07:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:
So are Grand Am calipers considered "bigger calipers"? Dont they have a larger piston?





quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

They are only a little bit bigger



The Grand Am calipers are 57mm vs 48mm and while it might not seem like much of an increase, but they are a 40% increase in piston area and subsequent fluid requirement.
fireboss JUN 04, 08:01 PM
Why is Orge so dead set against the upgrade?

My 87 stop OK,and then after I swaped the booster with one of sardonyx247 sells HERE.

Afterwards the improvement was so much better that there was no question in the improvement...No new pads or diff brand pads no air in the lines old or contaminated brake fluid,just better performance.

About a year later I did the 12 inch vette rotors and 88 calipers upgrade on the same car and it became an even better investment.

I don't have any techinal stuff or engineering drawings or even a automotive degree.....but have been driving this same car for years and can tell the cars ins and outs of it.

And it is very good for my car.... Eric,
Inferno JUN 05, 12:18 PM
So to be clear we can use the 92-96 Chev S10 Boosters?
Lou6t4gto JUN 05, 12:56 PM
The "Bone yard" told me' 95-'97 S10, Blazer, 2 & 4 door all work. I used '96 S10 6 cyl.
Chelo Fiero JUN 05, 02:18 PM
http://m.summitracing.com/p...ications?prefilter=1

Here are a list of all the models.
theogre JUN 05, 05:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by Lou6t4gto:
Ogre, All new premium pads, all new rotors, calipers, hoses, no air in lines. Old Booster did not have a" vacuum leak", still held vacuum from at least DAYS before I disconnected it. no leak from engine to booster. All was new BEFORE putting the 96 S10 unit on. Is it possible the old booster Was bad without showing any "Signs" of it ?


Yes
Booster can die w/o vacuum leak. Is one failure mode on dual diaphragm booster. google: vacuum booster failure
vac filter (84-86 L4) is dieing and kill brake performance.
theogre JUN 05, 05:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
The Grand Am calipers are 57mm vs 48mm and while it might not seem like much of an increase, but they are a 40% increase in piston area and subsequent fluid requirement.


Correct. Is why GA caliper need Blazer MC.
But Blazer MC hate OE calipers.

See my Cave, Brake Upgrade (Link is fixed now)


quote
Originally posted by fireboss:
Why is Orge so dead set against the upgrade?

My 87 stop OK,and then after I swaped the booster with one of sardonyx247 sells HERE.

Afterwards the improvement was so much better that there was no question in the improvement...No new pads or diff brand pads no air in the lines old or contaminated brake fluid,just better performance.

About a year later I did the 12 inch vette rotors and 88 calipers upgrade on the same car and it became an even better investment.

I don't have any techinal stuff or engineering drawings or even a automotive degree.....but have been driving this same car for years and can tell the cars ins and outs of it.

And it is very good for my car.... Eric,


If you said "Ogre Don't like it" would be more correct. I don't like it because many are comparing dead/dieing parts w/ new bigger parts and other reasons.

Sorry but rest of your post is like a "guest" in infomercial and means little.

(edit die to dieing)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-05-2014).]

theogre JUN 05, 06:20 PM

quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
I hear exactly what you are saying. but....
I had good stock brakes before the booster upgrade (I went through everything, SS lines, different ,stock, boosters, calipers don't stick slide nice, ebrake adjusts on first swing, new MC) and it just didn't seem right, good high firm pedal, but when I needed to stop NOW I had to stand on it, otherwise daily driving, they worked fine, everyone who drove my car (other Fiero owners) said I had great brakes. (BTW the biggest improvement was getting the E-brake to adjust, IIRC I had to replace a caliper) I was happy after that and all was fine but the more I drove newer cars the more I keep thinking something was wrong with the Fiero. I had allready swaped to drilled and slotted rotors, that got rid of ALL the brake fade, I swaped on the GA swap up front (as it was on another Fiero in the yard so cost was zero)
Not untill I swapped to the bigger booster was I really satified with the Fiero brakes.

When people buy/ask about a booster, I usally tell them to adjust the e-brake and make sure the system is in working order before hand. I agree with you I don't want the booster being a band aid/masking other problems. But the bigger booster is REAL NICE, you get used to it and can modulate the brakes just fine. What is scarry is haveing good stock brakes, standing on it as the dumb@#$ in front of you doesn't have brake lights and you notice late and worry if you can stop in time.

And, ok I will put this in caps, IF YOU CAN LOCK UP YOUR TIRES, YOU NEED BETTER TIRES, PERIOD!!!

Now look at where the booster comes from, an S10, Do you know the S10 comes with 3 different size boosters.?. Same vehicle, but the duke S10 only has a single diaphram booster, the 2.8L S10 has a Fiero size dual diaphram booster, the 4.3 S10 has the dual diaphram, bigger size booster. SAME CAR/TRUCK now if overboosting is a problem why does it not show up on the S10s.?. I have seen NOT ONE, not even one, person who did the upgrade, say "this sucks" not one.

Wow... Many problem with statements in this post. And Your are selling this upgrade.
  • Your "shot gun" approach to fix problems are common here and most other forums, lists, etc. Sorry but You have no idea or proof as to what problem are fix or hidden by big booster.
  • Big Booster will lock the brakes sooner than stock booster when everything else is same. Charts in this thread show line pressure results. Line pressure directly affects pressure on the pads. (Chart is 88 but 84-87 will see similar results.)
  • Locking brakes does not = need better tires. Even on dry pavement, most vehicles can and often will lock the front for panic stop. Locking on rear axle is Hard to Impossible to do in many vehicles. (Let's Ignoring ABS. Fiero and old cars don't have them.)
  • Comparing to S10 mean what? 3 boosters often are a sign to big changes in brakes. Example, a Light and Heavy Duty setups may need different boosters.
  • Saying "I have seen NOT ONE, not even one, person who did the upgrade, say "this sucks" not one." means very little. Most have no clue and just parrots same myths as _____ upgrades are best since slice bread. If big booster causes problems from touchy brakes then owners won't post big booster causes the wreak. If they survive, Most have no clue as to root cause of the spin-out, crash, etc.

    Since I've posted big booster could be good upgrade, I've restored my Fiero brakes. Now? Nope. I'll pass.

    Why Ogre?

    I've posted my brake restoring as above, here...
    I have NO problems in stopping the car and no fading. Fading in normal traffic, even stop and go traffic, is often a sign that calipers have problems causing dragged pads or driver w/ issues like tailgating. Rebuilt units often have problems right out of the box, especially rear ones.
    I've drive many new and old cars. My restored Fiero brakes perform as well as many new cars and SUVs.

    As I've said above, My Fiero is modified w/ left foot gas pedal.
    This adaption needs very good brakes.
    If you have Low Pedal, even a small amount, you will notice.
    You Cannot use two feet to push the brake pedal.

    show in these 2 picture I've took today.
    As Installed:


    This shows brake applied: (Right foot is resting on pedal guard.)

    Note that my heel hits the mount on gas pedal. Most/All pedal force are in my ankle muscles.

    Edit to add -> 87 L4, Auto Trans.

    [This message has been edited by theogre (edited 06-05-2014).]

    • theogre JUN 05, 06:51 PM
    As I've said "Ogre Don't like it..."
    Yes. But don't hate it either.
    This Big Booster does made more Line Pressure but from charts in above link thread should be within safe rage. (under 2000psi is safe working pressure on most cars and light trucks. Most times working pressure is below ~1000psi.)

    You might see big booster is good or whatever but depends on many things...
    Transmission is one big one.
    Auto trans will put a engine load on car when stopping. At idled V6 or V8 push more load thru auto trans then iron duke.
    Manuals then you push the clutch and no engine load goes to wheel while stopping.
    fireboss JUN 05, 07:13 PM

    quote
    Originally posted by theogre:
    Sorry but rest of your post is like a "guest" in infomercial and means little.

    (edit die to dieing)




    If you mean by "guest" as someone who has tried the product in two different brake setups (on the same car over a few years of driving) and has seen an improvement and tells his real world experience....Well I call that actual experience.

    But whatever......