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| 1988 Fiero rear wheel bearing upgrade for durability (Page 3/6) |
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Steven Snyder
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FEB 04, 01:07 AM
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Spacer time!
Raw material:
UPDATE 2015-03-20: I have temporarily removed the drawing for the spacer. The spacers I made from the drawing fit the spare axle I have, but they did NOT sit flat on the axles on my car, which had a larger fillet radius. You would not be able to easily see that they weren't sitting flat unless you shine a light behind and look for a small gap. If you made spacers based on this drawing, please verify fitment, and grind the chafer larger until the spacers sit flush.
The drawing I came up with for the spacer:
The spacer I used is 44.2mm x 29.2mm with a 3mm 45-degree chamfer to clear the fillet on the axle. It needs to be made of steel, and have parallel, flat-ground faces. Aluminum may creep or distort. A non-parallel spacer may not sit right, or may bend the axle. Do this carefully! Also double-check your axle fillet to make sure the spacer actually clears the fillet. If the spacer sits on the fillet you're going to have problems.
The axle end without the spacer is shown below. Note that I had previously removed the dust shield to measure clearances. The assembly will clear with the dust shield in place.
The axle with the spacer installed:
The spacer sitting on the hub bearing to make sure it doesn't hit anything except the inner bearing race.
And finally, the moment we've all been waiting for, the axle installed in the modified knuckle using the J-body bearing, J-body seal, and custom spacer. As you can see, there is plenty of clearance now!
 [This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 03-20-2015).]
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E.Furgal
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FEB 04, 01:46 AM
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Has anyone looked into the chevy cobalt,,
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Steven Snyder
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FEB 04, 02:10 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by E.Furgal:
Has anyone looked into the chevy cobalt,, |
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There are hundreds of potential candidate bearings. I've looked into the Cobalt, J-body, Solstice/Sky, G8, Taurus, CTS, Camaro, GTO, Corvete, Sonic, Spark, Cruise, and more, including import cars.
The J-body is the only bearing assembly that just requires slotting the hub flange and minimal boring of the knuckle, and has the same bolt pattern as the Fiero.
For example, the Cobalt is 5x110, requires a massive 14mm overbore of the knuckle, and doesn't have slottable bolt holes in the flange to make it line up with the Fiero knuckle.
To see what it takes to put in a much larger bearing, take a look at Fieroguru's thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120747.html.
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IXSLR8
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FEB 06, 12:18 AM
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mcguiver3
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FEB 06, 08:27 AM
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Does the Cadillac cartridge have the same wheel stud pattern as the Fiero 5X100?
Is the dust cap a stock 88 Fiero piece, I don't think it would fit?
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fieroguru
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FEB 06, 11:10 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by IXSLR8:
Regarding the 88 front bearings, I believe a couple of mods have already been done for more strength using the Cadillac cartridge and the fiero mounting part of the hub.
See page 62 of this thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000007-62.html |
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Several who have tried to replicate that upgrade have been unable to find the right bearings from Timken with the removable outer races. It would appear that over time the bearing design inside the housing changed, but they kept the same part #. So you have to buy a bunch of bearings and "hope" you get the right ones. Its a great upgrade, but the trial/error in finding the right bearings can be a challenge.
| quote | Originally posted by mcguiver3:
Does the Cadillac cartridge have the same wheel stud pattern as the Fiero 5X100?
Is the dust cap a stock 88 Fiero piece, I don't think it would fit? |
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Its 5 x 4 3/4". The wheel pilot will be too large to use stock wheels as well. The aftermarket ones normally have a large (more universal) pilot diameter and use concentric rings to make them application specific - so those would probably work.
You bore the fiero hosing out every so slightly, so you can use the caddy dust cap.
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Steven Snyder
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FEB 06, 02:02 PM
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Regarding the '88 front bearing upgrades, I would be wary of anything that hasn't been tested either with hundreds of thousands of miles of road use, or a full season on track, with disassembly and inspection afterward.
Rodney Dickman's front tapered roller bearings for the '88 promised to be stronger and I destroyed 3 of them in short order.... they only lasted me a few dozen laps on track each before they had excessive play. The used OE hubs last a whole weekend or more. One reason the OE design is so much stronger and stiffer is because the races are integrated into the housing and shaft. The races have big radii and smooth out the flow of stress through the hub and housing, also making the parts have a longer fatigue life.
The eBearing hubs for the front of the '88 Fiero were the worst -- the flanges would break off after only a few laps on track. Luckily, no-one lost their life to those hub failures. Unfortunately, many of these hubs are still running around on cars. Luckily, they're easy to spot. Inside the brake rotor pilot is a pretty much flat face. There's a large radius there on the OE hubs.
I'm not happy with Timken's hub engineering. They don't select the appropriate hub to shaft radius, or hub shaft thickness. They don't use integrated races, so there are stress concentrations everywhere. Actually this applies to all of the aftermarket hubs, including the Cadillac bearing upgrade shown in the link above. Look at the pictures I linked to at the beginning of this thread to see some failures of Timken hubs and others.
This is the eBearing hub:
http://www.vindkraft.com/fi...images/image0005.jpg[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 07-05-2022).]
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IXSLR8
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FEB 06, 02:22 PM
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I don't want to lead anyone off track with this thread (rear bearing upgrade), though the fronts were mentioned.
Just wanted to point out the Bubba post regarding our quest for better bearing options.
Whoever finds a caddy bearing that works, should document what/where they found it, for those who follow the upgrade...if its still possible.
By the way, I forgot to mention that I read on a racing forum somewhere that a Fiero owner was running an 88 on the track and had reoccurring front bearing failures, particularly the right side. He purged the bearing grease in the cartridges and used Motor Honey instead and the bearings would last. I wish I could find this source again.[This message has been edited by IXSLR8 (edited 02-06-2015).]
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ennored
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FEB 06, 09:41 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Steven Snyder:
There are hundreds of potential candidate bearings. I've looked into the Cobalt, J-body, Solstice/Sky, G8, Taurus, CTS, Camaro, GTO, Corvete, Sonic, Spark, Cruise, and more, including import cars.
The J-body is the only bearing assembly that just requires slotting the hub flange and minimal boring of the knuckle, and has the same bolt pattern as the Fiero.
For example, the Cobalt is 5x110, requires a massive 14mm overbore of the knuckle, and doesn't have slottable bolt holes in the flange to make it line up with the Fiero knuckle.
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I have friends that run a Cavalier in Chump and LeMons. They killed stock bearings. They swapped out knuckles I think, it's been a while since I asked them about it.
There is also a 4x100 Cobalt. 15x7 4x100 wheels are about the most plentiful wheel out there. I thought about adding some plate to the outboard side of the knuckles, the overbore could "live" there. I'd get some free trackwidth too. (Yeah have to figure out halfshafts.) It's a way backburner thing for me though. You have gotten much further than me, and I'm glad you have, does give something to consider doing.
If the J-body stuff wasn't out there, what would you next choice be?
And get to work on some fronts!
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Steven Snyder
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FEB 09, 03:48 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by ennored:
I have friends that run a Cavalier in Chump and LeMons. They killed stock bearings. They swapped out knuckles I think, it's been a while since I asked them about it.
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All of the stories I've read from J-body racers about front wheel bearings include "trips to the parts store every weekend". They don't seem to realize there's a huge difference in the way they aftermarket (parts store) bearings are compared to the ones from the dealer (or what originally came on the car). They probably also don't want to spend $100-$150 per bearing for a car that's built for less than $3000.
Like the OEM Fiero bearings, the J-body bearings won't last forever. They are a little bit stronger than the stock Fiero bearings which last me about 2 seasons. Unlike the Fiero bearings, the original J-body bearings are actually available new. Nothing in the aftermarket counts -- they're all junk as evidenced by the pictures I linked to at the beginning of this thread.
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If the J-body stuff wasn't out there, what would you next choice be?
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C5/C6 Corvette on custom uprights... also have another idea for using the stock rear uprights but I need to test it first.[This message has been edited by Steven Snyder (edited 02-11-2015).]
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