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fierosound
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MAY 14, 11:34 AM
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theogre
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MAY 14, 06:48 PM
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Correct bulbs will Not make the dome/map melt even left On for hours.
white "194" etc LED has problems in dome lights and more.
fierosound ones are almost certain is "canbus" LED that can/will get hot because of the resistor(s) for the "canbus error free feature."
"Canbus" LED is used to trick BCM that expect Normal bulbs in various external fixtures but only works on blinkers, brake lights, etc that won't keep them On long.
If stay On then get problems like Smokin' hot CANbus LED lamps. (230C in open air.) on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkPGqM0Sl64
So If you use that in Dome/Map & related then remove the "canbus" resistor(s).
If dome/map lights are dim or "yellow" like fake picture above... then likely have wiring problems.
Example: Fiero Map bulbs often have iffy ground because issues w/ the switches &/or mounting screw is a ground for them too.
Or some fool put wrong bulbs. Many just replace any wedge bulb w/ 194 but only is < 4w while 198 is 5w & 906 is 9w.
Worse, some grab any bulb that seem to fit & way hot bulb fries the fixture. You can get brighter/hotter bulb in same format as 906.
If a switch gets hot even melts then something is way wrong pulling more amps or switch has a lot of resistance.
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Matthew_Fiero
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MAY 17, 08:46 AM
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theogre
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MAY 17, 10:43 AM
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912 = 12.8v 13w can burn/melt fixture made for 906 9w bulbs. Difference May seem Small but when Fixtures are small too often can't handle more heat from the hotter bulb.
Plus you have the "rare" dome light w/ 3 switches in many books & Worse, the dome switch has 2 13w bulbs = 26w (2a) vs 18w (1.4a) made for. (Others have "performance sound" Control there or later cars w/o the third switch in the middle.)
Most Switches shouldn't burn w/ the slightly hotter bulb but maybe that switch is on the edge because iffy spring etc. OR Tiny switch just can't handle the extra power draw & spring etc got hot making cascading failure.
IOW You may not see switch problems but anything causing "high resistance" in/on &/or pulling more amps thru them can cause contact burning or contacts just get hot enough to burn/melt the case etc. More so w/ dome switch because often On for many minutes to hours to clean the car etc...
Common Example: Many often cooks the "Dimmer" switch for headlights. Can heat the body then cause other problems as case "warps" etc. That happens w/ Factory HL bulbs but way easier w/ "SilverStar" types that push watts to legal limits, far worse when even higher watt bulbs for TFS & more.
See https://web.archive.org/web...ierocave/lightme.htm & electric motor page covering low volts.
"Easiest" fix is to Bypass that switch because already "dead" & use 906 or LED. If 906 is "dim" etc then have more iffy wiring.
Many install LED of whatever type but that lenses are made to work right w/ 906 bulb. So LED maybe "bright" but light out just goes everywhere. The above format w/ 2 LED might work better then a lot of others but you Don't want the "canbus feature." Not only the Resistors heat the LED but pulls Power the small switches will "hate."
Above pic doesn't = wiring etc on that board & "canbus" resistor(s) can pull same or more amps then standard 906 or even 912 bulbs. IOW Pic Can't tell 270Ω or very tiny ones between the "pins" is for LED or "Canbus."
E2A--> The Map switches should be fine because only have 1 13w bulb & rarely to never On as most owners etc never use them. Just to be safe put 906 bulbs or LED. Get 906 10 pack often cheaper then 2 or more 2 packs sold everywhere.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-17-2024).]
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theogre
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MAY 17, 11:00 AM
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Look @ your pic more...
FSM etc switches that to dome light circuit or to ground to keep the bulbs On no matter what happen w/ doors or dash switches.
Does that switch have 3 wires or 2? Can't tell for the pic's.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-17-2024).]
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Matthew_Fiero
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MAY 17, 11:13 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
912 = 12.8v 13w can burn/melt fixture made for 906 9w bulbs. Difference May seem Small but when Fixtures are small too often can't handle more heat from the hotter bulb.
Plus you have the "rare" dome light w/ 3 switches in many books & Worse, the dome switch has 2 13w bulbs = 26w (2a) vs 18w (1.4a) made for. (Others have "performance sound" Control there or later cars w/o the third switch in the middle.)
Most Switches shouldn't burn w/ the slightly hotter bulb but maybe that switch is on the edge because iffy spring etc. OR Tiny switch just can't handle the extra power draw & spring etc got hot making cascading failure.
IOW You may not see switch problems but anything causing "high resistance" in/on &/or pulling more amps thru them can cause contact burning or contacts just get hot enough to burn/melt the case etc. More so w/ dome switch because often On for many minutes to hours to clean the car etc...
Common Example: Many often cooks the "Dimmer" switch for headlights. Can heat the body then cause other problems as case "warps" etc. That happens w/ Factory HL bulbs but way easier w/ "SilverStar" types that push watts to legal limits, far worse when even higher watt bulbs for TFS & more.
See https://web.archive.org/web...ierocave/lightme.htm & electric motor page covering low volts.
"Easiest" fix is to Bypass that switch because already "dead" & use 906 or LED. If 906 is "dim" etc then have more iffy wiring.
Many install LED of whatever type but that lenses are made to work right w/ 906 bulb. So LED maybe "bright" but light out just goes everywhere. The above format w/ 2 LED might work better then a lot of others but you Don't want the "canbus feature." Not only the Resistors heat the LED but pulls Power the small switches will "hate."
Above pic doesn't = wiring etc on that board & "canbus" resistor(s) can pull same or more amps then standard 906 or even 912 bulbs. IOW Pic Can't tell 270Ω or very tiny ones between the "pins" is for LED or "Canbus."
E2A--> The Map switches should be fine because only have 1 13w bulb & rarely to never On as most owners etc never use them. Just to be safe put 906 bulbs or LED. Get 906 10 pack often cheaper then 2 or more 2 packs sold everywhere.
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Yes the 3 switch is not very common this one does not have performance sound as it's an 85. I have removed the bulbs and am trying to fix this switch right now.
The switch has two wires
https://images.fiero.nl/2020/domeswitch.jpg
I shouldn't have used these "brighter" bulbs. The driver side door needs extra effort to ensure it's closed because of a worn door pin (replacing this year). I didn't realize and the poor switch had to deal with an entire battery life of being on.
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theogre
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MAY 17, 12:43 PM
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Then not sure how the switch(es) & dome lights is wired....
All "books" I have have same 3 wire switch shown in sneak path cave page https://web.archive.org/web...rocave/sneakpath.htm
85 Fiero Alldata shows this & gets all info direct from GM...
If just have 2 white wires, it disables the bulbs & just bypass the switch.
If has white & black wires then If just turns On when pushed, then GM "skipped" the 3-way switch for business reasons then you just cut a wire & rest works w/o that.
"business reasons?" GM likely use three of same switches to reduce parts to make the dome light that keep cost down.
The door Jam switches and Dash Dimmer dome switch are bigger etc that while may not like the 912 bulbs, last longer then the tiny switch.
Pushing "brighter" bulbs have a long history here. Worse R.D. and others Selling them w/o bothering Hotter bulbs often have problems. Dome lights, Dash lights, & more w/ brighter bulbs = hotter bulbs causes problems now or down the road depending on the Fixture involved.
Example: Brighter Taillights = 2357 & while Nochies rears don't care because has more air moving heat inside them, GT rears often have heat problems worse w/ in heavy traffic areas.
Don't bother repairing the switch, just stuff foam or plastic under the bracket to keep the button out.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-17-2024).]
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Matthew_Fiero
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MAY 17, 09:05 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
Don't bother repairing the switch, just stuff foam or plastic under the bracket to keep the button out.
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I went to a junkyard earlier and pulled two dome assemblies. I carefully opened up one of the switches to compare and mine is definitely melted. It's an interesting design where when the button is pressed the circular portion inside the switch indexes on teeth (yellow teeth mate to the white teeth in the pic) to make contact with the ground and when you push it again it indexes so it's not touching the ground.
I've removed the extra bright lightbulbs and are using the originals from the removed dome light assembly.
Replacing the switch was super easy! I even replaced the spring. Now I will start my hunt for some decent LEDs.
I know this brought the topic a bit astray however this is a lesson not to have incorrect bulbs in your car as our switches (and wiring) are old and sensitive.
Ogre thank you so much for your helpful insight.
Matthew[This message has been edited by Matthew_Fiero (edited 05-17-2024).]
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Matthew_Fiero
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MAY 17, 10:35 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
Then not sure how the switch(es) & dome lights is wired....
All "books" I have have same 3 wire switch shown in sneak path cave page https://web.archive.org/web...rocave/sneakpath.htm
85 Fiero Alldata shows this & gets all info direct from GM...
If just have 2 white wires, it disables the bulbs & just bypass the switch.
If has white & black wires then If just turns On when pushed, then GM "skipped" the 3-way switch for business reasons then you just cut a wire & rest works w/o that.
"business reasons?" GM likely use three of same switches to reduce parts to make the dome light that keep cost down.
The door Jam switches and Dash Dimmer dome switch are bigger etc that while may not like the 912 bulbs, last longer then the tiny switch.
Pushing "brighter" bulbs have a long history here. Worse R.D. and others Selling them w/o bothering Hotter bulbs often have problems. Dome lights, Dash lights, & more w/ brighter bulbs = hotter bulbs causes problems now or down the road depending on the Fixture involved.
Example: Brighter Taillights = 2357 & while Nochies rears don't care because has more air moving heat inside them, GT rears often have heat problems worse w/ in heavy traffic areas.
Don't bother repairing the switch, just stuff foam or plastic under the bracket to keep the button out.
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You have me concerned about my dash lights as I have also put brighter bulbs in there and some nights when driving I can smell hot electronics coming from the instrument cluster. I'm going to take this as a lesson and find replacement bulbs. I do not want to repeat this and have my instrument cluster melt. Thank you for this.
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theogre
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MAY 18, 01:26 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Matthew_Fiero:
You have me concerned about my dash lights as I have also put brighter bulbs in there and some nights when driving I can smell hot electronics coming from the instrument cluster. I'm going to take this as a lesson and find replacement bulbs. I do not want to repeat this and have my instrument cluster melt. Thank you for this. |
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Brighter Dash lights can "burn" the back dash case &/or the sockets so won't work. You can replace the sockets but may not help w/ "melted" dash back.
194 bulbs get them hot enough does same thing but after Decades of use for most drivers.
194 bulbs should be bright to the point most drivers never had them run @ full bright most of the time in nearly every vehicle back to 1960's or more. More so driving outside of city light pollution. Bright dash = light pollution = you can't see outside right w/o city light pollution & even that may not help.
E2A--> Can get 10 pack of 194 too as need 6 to replace just dash illumination bulbs.
So when have "Dim bulbs" or other dash problems...
see
cave https://web.archive.org/web...fierocave/dimmer.htm
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/138175.html Instrument panel bulb layout
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/146784.html Fuel, Engine Temp or Oil Pressure gauges have problems?
Also The Smell... Brighter bulbs mean want more power & dimmer transistor gets Hotter then cooks off dust etc & smells can be of burning crap & maybe the transistor assembly too.
I would put the assembly out then apart & clean all then put fresh Heat Sink grease. plane white HS grease will do. Do Not use "liquid metal" from PC as most eats Aluminum because has Gallium & related metals.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-18-2024).]
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