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| Questions: LX9 3500 swap using 2005 stock PCM from G6 (Page 2/3) |
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Will
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JUL 25, 07:28 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
another tidbit that may be helpful eventually, the LX9 uses the same crank and cam timing reluctors as the LS1. however, the aftermarket camshafts match the 3400 reluctor, which is a single notch or tooth instead of the LS1's 175 degree reluctor. the LX9 cam reluctor works in the 3400 PCM programming, I would *GUESS* that the opposite is *NOT* true, because GM refered to the 175 degree design as "fast start" because the PCM could rapidly determine whether or not the engine was on #1 compression stroke, or #1 exhaust.
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Interesting tidbit... I didn't know GM used the 24x reluctor on the V6's... just for that one engine. Is there a cylinder select in an LS1 .bin that allows that software to run the LX9?
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ericjon262
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JUL 25, 11:58 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
Interesting tidbit... I didn't know GM used the 24x reluctor on the V6's... just for that one engine. Is there a cylinder select in an LS1 .bin that allows that software to run the LX9? |
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for the longest time, I thought it was an oddball wheel, I Logged the wheel with my MS3x, and compared it to an LS1 wheel and they are dead nuts identical.
Most GM bin files I've looked at do, I would be surprised if this one didn't. it may also be worth looking into similarities between the stock LX9 code, and an LS1, considering they use the same reluctors. there's a slim chance the code is very similar.
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SteveMushynsky
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JUL 26, 02:35 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
Sometimes I have the attitude of a crotchety old dude... I've been called worse on this forum, I'll let you decide how to interpret it. it's true that one can only try, do you have any coding experience? I looked into it when I had the 3400PCM, it's a mess if you don't know what you're looking at.
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I would be the "crotchety old dude" I tongue-in-cheek referred to. I would never presume to lay that label on someone else. At 67 years old, I am well into "get off my lawn" status if I don't squelch that tendency, myself 
All of your responses are educational and very much appreciated. Knowing myself, I'll dig in and learn whatever I need to accomplish what I want to. It just takes longer. And I do need to keep expenditures in mind, lest I invest in too much expensive equipment I might never use again. I need to learn more so that I can find my preferred path. Thanks for your help.------------------
Steve Mushynsky
1984 Fiero 2M4
34K miles
1986 Fiero SE I4 (donor)
Lots of good miles. One very bad mile.
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Will
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JUL 26, 02:21 PM
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On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.
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ericjon262
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JUL 28, 04:09 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
On the internet, no one knows you're a dog. |
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well, you found my secret...
 ------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
"The day I tried to live, I stole a thousand beggars' change and gave it to the rich."
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html
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SteveMushynsky
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AUG 02, 02:12 AM
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ericjon262, I reread your build thread for your LX9 Fiero. I am agog at your tenacity and adeptness evident in all 47 pages of your build diary. Freaking amazing!
Is there a source for pinouts and code data options for the LX9 PCM # 12591279 ?
Given that GM seemed to have used code that included options beyond those needed for the cars that some PCMs were used in (ie: V6 PCMs that also included data options for 8 cylinder engines), is it possible/likely that options for boost applications might exist in this LX9 PCM as 'leftover' code adapted from other PCMs such as that for the 3800SC? Theorizing (or fantasizing) only.
Can this LX9 PCM 12591279 be reprogrammed?
Apparently, the folks at https://www.pcmperformance.com/programming.html can work with this PCM for use in its original car. Whether they could or would work on one for use in a Fiero or with boost, I do not know.
Any thoughts, anyone? Has anyone worked with these folks?------------------
Steve Mushynsky
1984 Fiero 2M4
34K miles
1986 Fiero SE I4 (donor)
Lots of good miles. One very bad mile.
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ericjon262
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AUG 02, 02:34 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by SteveMushynsky:
ericjon262, I reread your build thread for your LX9 Fiero. I am agog at your tenacity and adeptness evident in all 47 pages of your build diary. Freaking amazing!
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thanks, I'm still at it, lots of mistakes have been made over the years, and I'm finally rectifying may of them, if there's a mistake involving a 3500 swap into a fiero, I've probably made it to some degree or another...
| quote | Originally posted by SteveMushynsky:
Is there a source for pinouts and code data options for the LX9 PCM # 12591279 ?
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on autozone's website, there's a DIY page that has all sorts of wiring diagrams, it's pretty useful, you have to make an account, but it's free. you can search by vehicle.
I developed this list a few years ago:
http://www.gearhead-efi.com...98-GM-V6-PCM-pinouts
| quote | Originally posted by SteveMushynsky:
Given that GM seemed to have used code that included options beyond those needed for the cars that some PCMs were used in (ie: V6 PCMs that also included data options for 8 cylinder engines), is it possible/likely that options for boost applications might exist in this LX9 PCM as 'leftover' code adapted from other PCMs such as that for the 3800SC? Theorizing (or fantasizing) only.
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I would doubt it. the gen 3 60v6 used a similar PCM to the 3800, and there were options in the programming for the L67 (3800sc) for engine type, and among other things, they had 2.5(china?), 3.1(LG4),3.4(LA1), 3.5(LX5), and 3.8(L67/NA version) I haven't seen anything in any of the V6 programs to suggest they also support V8's. the code is wildly different, which is very unfortunate for anyone trying to use a V6/not V8 engine. I could offer help if you were going to use a 3400/3800 PCM, but I don't have anything on the LX9 PCM. the LX9 on the other hand, uses it's own different sensor arrangement, more like an LS1, it would probably be more likely to run the engine on LS1 programming than LX9, in a standalone application like a fiero.
| quote | Originally posted by SteveMushynsky:
Can this LX9 PCM 12591279 be reprogrammed?
Apparently, the folks at https://www.pcmperformance.com/programming.html can work with this PCM for use in its original car. Whether they could or would work on one for use in a Fiero or with boost, I do not know.
Any thoughts, anyone? Has anyone worked with these folks?
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anything can be reprogrammed, the problem is can the parameters you need changed, be changed? V8 guys(except northstar) have it easy, because everything has been hacked, V6 guys, not so much, and I have no idea about GM 4 cylinder stuff. it's the big reason why I recommend OBD1, or standalone, obd1 has been hacked to do some pretty cool stuff, unfortunately, the guys who still use/develop it are starting to thin out.
that being said, I have run a 3500, with the sensor arrangements of a 3400, on L67 programming, so many things are possible.
------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."
"The day I tried to live, I stole a thousand beggars' change and gave it to the rich."
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html
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Will
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AUG 02, 08:48 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by ericjon262:
the LX9 on the other hand, uses it's own different sensor arrangement, more like an LS1, it would probably be more likely to run the engine on LS1 programming than LX9, in a standalone application like a fiero.
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LS1 PCM hardware can run a Northstar with just a switch of the "ignition type" parameter, so if there's a "cylinder select" it should be able to run a V6.
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Raydar
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AUG 02, 06:31 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Will:
Interesting tidbit... I didn't know GM used the 24x reluctor on the V6's... just for that one engine. Is there a cylinder select in an LS1 .bin that allows that software to run the LX9? |
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FWIW... This jogged a memory for me.
Tunercat is showing OBD2 Definition Files for 2001 through (early) 2007 GM trucks that they label as "LS1 truck". The same files cover 4.3 (V6), 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 8.1 engines.
OBD2_03
2001 - 02 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
OBD2_04
2003 - 05 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
OBD2_14
2006 - 07* LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
Without digging, I don't know which PCMs these files support, but it would appear to at least settle whether the LS1 PCM would support a six cylinder.
As I recall, my 4.3's cam timing was actually done through the distributor, which was NOT adjustable.
Also, 4.3s and (at least) 4.8s were both also available with a manual trans, so there's that.
(I actually thought about trying to swap an LS into my 2001 Sonoma, using the stock computer, but ended up selling it, instead.)
Anyway... this certainly doesn't answer all of the questions, but it may help to add a bit of confusion to the mix.  [This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-02-2019).]
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ericjon262
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AUG 02, 06:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Raydar:
FWIW... This jogged a memory for me.
Tunercat is showing OBD2 Definition Files for 2001 through (early) 2007 GM trucks that they label as "LS1 truck". The same files cover 4.3 (V6), 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 and 8.1 engines.
OBD2_03
2001 - 02 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
OBD2_04
2003 - 05 LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
OBD2_14
2006 - 07* LS1 Trucks (4.3L, 4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, 8.1L)
Without digging, I don't know which PCMs these files support, but it would appear to at least settle whether the LS1 PCM would support a six cylinder.
As I recall, my 4.3's cam timing was actually done through the distributor, which was NOT adjustable.
(I actually thought about trying to swap an LS into my 2001 Sonoma, using the stock computer, but ended up selling it, instead.)
Anyway... this certainly doesn't answer all of the questions, but it may help to add a bit of confusion to the mix.
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while this is true that they use the same computer, the hardware, as you point out, is wildly different, the crank and cam position reluctors are nothing alike between the obd2 Gen 1/2 V8's(including the 4.3), and the gen3+V8's. I won't say it's impossible, but I can't provide any concrete evidence as to whether it would work. if anyone wants to buy an LS1 definition file for me, I'll open up tunercat OBD2 and see what's in there.
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