The White Bug (Page 14/46)
pmbrunelle MAY 22, 12:21 AM
There is a small puddle of oil on top of the transmission, and it's not coming from the turbo. The turbo is dry.

The shifter shaft which penetrates the case is wet, and the breather vent also looks wet with oil. I'm not exactly sure.

Any opinions regarding this issue with my Muncie 4-speed?
ericjon262 MAY 22, 02:36 AM
possible that the trans was over filled? that would be my first guess, but it's been ages since I looked at an old 4 speed.

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claude dalpe MAY 22, 09:43 AM
and the breather vent also looks wet with oil. I'm not exactly sure.
Like ericjon262 said maybe over filled? Or your breather not working properly ! or your shifter shaft is loose in the case (I suppose you had put a new seal there)
pmbrunelle MAY 22, 11:04 PM
I'll check the transmission oil level this weekend.

Some yahoo put a turbo above the transmission, which makes that job more tricky
ericjon262 MAY 23, 01:09 AM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I'll check the transmission oil level this weekend.

Some yahoo put a turbo above the transmission, which makes that job more tricky




Engineers are jerks aren't they! lol!

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

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La fiera MAY 23, 11:07 AM
Hey Patrick! How much HP are you expecting your engine to produce? Be gentle with that Muncie, they don't like sudden bursts of torque.
It will last a lot longer if you can program boost by RPM or MPH. Just a thought, keep up the good job!
pmbrunelle MAY 23, 12:15 PM
I would guess in the 250 to 300 hp range when everything is working right. For now though, I am running off the wastegate spring while I solve other problems. Increasing the boost with the electronic solenoid is a project for later.

I remember that you split open the smooth case on your Muncie! I have the ribbed case (from a V6 Fiero) on mine, so hopefully it is stronger than the smooth version.

My hope is that this turbo setup does not shock-load the transmission much more than a stock 2.8 V6. After an upshift at WOT, when I get back on the gas and release the clutch pedal, the manifold pressure should be close to atmospheric. So during the shock-load of the gear change, the engine torque is not too high.

Because of the turbo lag, it takes about 0.3 to 0.4 seconds once I'm in gear for full boost to return. I think that the turbo lag makes the re-application of torque a gentle process for the transmission.

The MS3 has a flat-shift feature to maintain the boost as much as possible during the shifts; I think I will avoid using this feature, to be more gentle on the transmission.

I never had a turbo car before. I thought that maybe I would be bothered by the turbo lag, but finally I think it gives the car a special character. The lag is like foreplay before full boost.
La fiera MAY 23, 03:57 PM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

The MS3 has a flat-shift feature to maintain the boost as much as possible during the shifts; I think I will avoid using this feature, to be more gentle on the transmission.

I never had a turbo car before. I thought that maybe I would be bothered by the turbo lag, but finally I think it gives the car a special character. The lag is like foreplay before full boost.



The good thing about Flat-shift is that you can fine tune it to how strong the engine comes into power.
You can also use it to keep the RPMs of the turbo up thus avoing lag.
Another antilag trick is to retard on deceleration (foot off the throttle) at the lower part of the timing table,
lets say from 7000 to 4000 RPMs and at the same RPM window on the VE table you add fuel.

That will create violent explosions between the head and the turbo and as the expanding combusting gas goes past
the turbine at high speed, even with the throttle closed the turbo is turning at high speed and creating boost, once on the throttle again
and hang on for your life!

Yes it creates A LOT of heat in the exhaust, they'll glow RED. But you can have that only at high RPMs like I said before.
To cool down the pipes all you have to do is keep it rich lets say from 3950 to 3500 and advance the timing to about 44-47,
below 3500 go back to normal fueling keeping the timing normally hi.

Every time you do that there will loud BANGS and visible fire out of your exhaust! That's foreplay
ericjon262 MAY 26, 03:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I remember that you split open the smooth case on your Muncie! I have the ribbed case (from a V6 Fiero) on mine, so hopefully it is stronger than the smooth version.



From what I remember reading before I put an F23 in my car, the V6 4 speed is slightly stronger than a getrag 282, the downside being that it doesn't have overdrive, so it's not as hwy friendly.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

cognita semper

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

pmbrunelle MAY 26, 12:13 PM

quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
That will create violent explosions between the head and the turbo and as the expanding combusting gas goes past
the turbine at high speed, even with the throttle closed the turbo is turning at high speed and creating boost, once on the throttle again
and hang on for your life!

Yes it creates A LOT of heat in the exhaust, they'll glow RED.



I am not ready to start beating the crap out of my exhaust. This build is too new; I am not ready to break it, yet!
However, I suspect a time will come when I have the itch to make the torque come back faster.

For example, now that the MAP stabilises at 155 kPa, I'm convinced that the engine needs more boost...


quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:
From what I remember reading before I put an F23 in my car, the V6 4 speed is slightly stronger than a getrag 282, the downside being that it doesn't have overdrive, so it's not as hwy friendly.



For some perspective, here in Québec, the speed limit on highways here is 100 km/h, and the typical maximum cruise speed is 110 km/h. Somewhat slower than the typical 80 mph (so I've read) highway cruise in the USA. My datalogs shows an engine speed of 3240 RPM for a vehicle speed of 110 km/h, which seems quite reasonable to me. I calibrated the VSS reading with a GPS. Eventually I'll probably install taller tires than the 215/60R14 tires I have on the car now.

However, this is the first 4-speed car I have ever driven. Compared to the 5-speeds (and to a lesser extent, 6-speeds) I have driven, I noticed that the wider gaps between gears make the car a bit harder to drive. Downshifts require bigger throttle blips, and it takes more concentration to match the revs right. I'm getting the hang of it though.

Durability-wise, I would guess that the Getrag 282 and the ribbed-case Muncie would be in the same league. People have blown up both boxes. When I was shopping for a replacement planet gear for the differential I found that the Muncie and Getrag 282 share the same part numbers for the differential (planet + satellite) gears.

What's bad for the durability of my transmission is the 1984 M19 gearing (3.53 1st, 4.10 final) vs. the M17 V6 gearing (3.31 1st, 3.65 final). Shorter gear ratios result in greater gear-separating force that can potentially split open the case.