Tracking the Fiero (Page 1/2)
pHoOl OCT 19, 10:50 AM
Hi all,

A few friends have some newer cars which they've taken to the local track (Waterford) and have expressed the joys and fun of doing a track day. I'm considering looking into this possibly next spring or summer, and taking my Fiero. Currently I'm on stock 4 speed and 2.8. I have Fiero store front and rear swaybars, and I've upgraded to 17" rims with 225 Michelin Pilot Super Sport on all 4 corners.

I think I've got the handling and tires in a good place. What I'm somewhat worried about is brakes. Being on the non ventilated disks, I'm wondering what would be the best pads for track duty. Or is this a time to start looking at doing a brake upgrade in terms of Lebaron, Grand Am, Corvette c4/c5, etc?

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86 Fiero GT

cvxjet OCT 19, 11:42 AM
Not sure about what pads- some track pads are really no good for street use because they need to be HOT before they really grab. But I can tell you that you should look into converting your FRONTS to ventilated discs- I believe it is not that difficult. The Fiero Store has a complete kit with discs and calipers.

Even with our rear weight distribution, the fronts are still the ones that absorb most of the energy during braking....There are a lot of vehicles that came with vented up front but solids out back- Mid and rear engine cars......

(On my 85, I converted the rear suspension to 88, which obviously brought the vented 88 brake setup- I then converted my front to 88, using Sluppy123's aluminum front hubs to cut down on weight gain and wheel offset- but that cost some money and I'm not sure if Sluppy is still making these hubs (Although he is selling a set right now over in the Mall...)
FieroWannaBe OCT 19, 12:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by pHoOl:


I think I've got the handling and tires in a good place. What I'm somewhat worried about is brakes. Being on the non ventilated disks, I'm wondering what would be the best pads for track duty. Or is this a time to start looking at doing a brake upgrade in terms of Lebaron, Grand Am, Corvette c4/c5, etc?




Brakes are the #1 priority for track duty. You MUST change all the fluid for high temp racing fluid, or it WILL boil, especially as it ages. What you want for brakes all depends on your budget as there are a few different kits out there, and lots of people have their opinions, but only few have actually used their Fieros on a real race track. I myself have tracked other cars, but not any of my Fieros.

My suggestion is: the larger and thicker the rotor, the more mass you have to absorb all the kinetic energy turned to heat by braking, and venting provides you with the convection to cool those rotors.Tthe right pads will sustain friction after being heated up beyond what they see for street braking. Picking a caliper/rotor combo that has quality rotors and the availability of race type pads is ideal. I would be partial to the Corvette based stuff, I see you have the 4 speed trans, so I assume you have a Pre-88 car therefor you will need to replace the calipers regardless to accommodate a new rotor.

I think the two best options per dollar spent would be either a C5 corvette based or GM Metric Caliper (refered to as Lebaron here) based upgrade, just because their a many aftermarket pad options available, since GM used these caliper designs in many applications.
wftb OCT 19, 06:00 PM
With your tires you probably won't have to worry too much about the brakes. Waterford has a lot of tighter corners and shorter straights so you arent doing a mad charge down a straight and then jamming the brakes on to make the next turn. I was on that track at the 25th Fiero show and I never took the car out of 3rd gear. The only spot that needs a lot of braking is at the end of the main straight. I was determined to hit my redline on the straight and although I did not go off the track, I flat spotted a tire getting slowed down for the corner. My old Kuhmo Ecstas were new back then so I had a lot of grip.

Most track days are not about going as fast as you can, they are mostly about learning what you can get out of your car and what you need to improve on in an informal setting. There are no rules and little to no tech inspection. And usually there are groups for beginner, intermediate and experienced racers. No one cares who has the fastest car, everyone goes at their own pace and tries to be safe. If you are going slower than most, just wave and pull over and let them pass.

There are a few threads here on Pennocks about racing in Lemons and Chump car and one team used stock (84-87) brakes and did fairly well with them. They found by running ducts to them they could keep them cool enough to last. I think this is the thread : http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/083726.html

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

theogre OCT 20, 02:32 AM
changing fluid is good for most cars over 10 years old.
See my Cave, Brake Fluid

I have tested many cars w/ several methods and old cars or fools that drive thru deep water often have Very Wet fluid boils near plain water. IOW Well Below "Wet Boil" spec on label of products of all fluid brands of all types.
my favorite is a tool that test DOT 3 4 and 5.1 just for this issue but most people including most repair shops can't/won't spend hundreds of $ to buy one so very unlikely you'll find a shop w/ one.

Change pads to premium pads like Warner TQ helps too. They will resist fading more OEM and cheaper ones.

May not pass track inspection w/ iffy brake hoses and other problems.
"New" SAE J1401 hoses often sold as "pro grade" "rubber" hoses. (Been around for 15+ years for most hose makers.)
see http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129208.html

Brake "Upgrades" have many problems including Legal problems that many completely ignore.
Oh You might pass state and track inspections etc. but if you wreck is when you can have big problems w/ Insurance Co.'s, Lawyer suing you and more.
GA Scam is covered here... See my Cave, Brake Upgrade
Even if you install Seville rears to keep E-brake function, uses same piston design that often have same problems common to Fiero Rears covered in brake section of cave, PFF, etc.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

pHoOl OCT 20, 08:47 PM
Thanks all! And yes, Ogre, you do have a good point about the legal angle in a wreck. I've definitely not changed brake fluid since I've had it, and that's been just over 10 years. Sounds like a good place to start.
wftb OCT 21, 10:09 PM
If you crash on a racetrack, you are SOL as far as any sort of insurance coverage goes.As far as being held liable for damage you may cause, you are on private property and in a competition environment so none of the usual rules apply. The last time I was at a track day, a fellow that had a Mazda 3 speed(turbo from the factory model) told me he used to use a 2 year old BMW M5 on the track. He bought the used Mazda because he realized it was pretty stupid to risk a car worth 50,000.00 just to have a bit of fun.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

theogre OCT 22, 05:03 AM

quote
Originally posted by wftb:
If you crash on a racetrack, you are SOL as far as any sort of insurance coverage goes.As far as being held liable for damage you may cause, you are on private property and in a competition environment so none of the usual rules apply. The last time I was at a track day, a fellow that had a Mazda 3 speed(turbo from the factory model) told me he used to use a 2 year old BMW M5 on the track. He bought the used Mazda because he realized it was pretty stupid to risk a car worth 50,000.00 just to have a bit of fun.

And Just How does one Get To A Track w/o towing/hauling w/ a truck rated to handle a ton or three of cargo etc?
Most Drive the car to the track and many w/ all types of crap and wonder why they get ticketed or in a wreck have Legal problems.

Related Issues:
Many fools Drive to a drag strip w/ illegal tires and cops stop them to from or both. Many Cops will stop you have "DOT Legal" Slicks to see if they are DOT labeled and make sure the tires have enough thread and take a hard look at rest of car for problems to ticket or arrest you.
Many use 4 or 5 point harness on the street that isn't a seat-belt according to many state laws. Unused or wrong Seat-belts are a "Primary Offense" in most places and can get you stopped by cops. That's ignoring in some places can likely impound the car under anti street racing laws.
wftb OCT 22, 10:06 AM
These are mostly street legal cars. Some are track day only and come on a trailer. Most people drive to the track with their racing slicks in the trunk or sometimes if they don't have room bring them on a small trailer. At our local track, for a lot of drivers it is worth it to get racing tires rather than wear out more expensive ultra high performance summer tires.

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86 GT built 2.2 ecotec turbo
rear SLA suspension
QA1 coilovers on tube arms

lou_dias OCT 22, 10:51 AM
Check the track rules for your even.
Tire make a huge difference. The most difference actually. We get to use 100 treadwear rated tires at the track I go to.