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| The Blue Car: A 3800/L67 how-to (VIDEO) build diary (Page 2/5) |
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steve308
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APR 05, 07:56 PM
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Lot's of great information! Thanks ----- Hope this is moved to the 'construction area' so it doesn't get shuffled to a back page.
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LostNotForgotton
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APR 12, 01:21 PM
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Last Saturday I uploaded another video of the installation process of my 3800. This one goes through the installation of the FieroRog engine brackets as well as installing some missing pulleys, accessories and the accessory belt. I always suggest that anyone buying an engine from a salvage yard have it checked out if at all possible. If you can't do it yourself it's good to have an engine shop check it out and do a leak down test on it before installing it. It's also good to change some of the belt accessories that would normally be a pain to do when the engine is in the car. As you'll see in this video I suggest changing the water pump and to my surprise it was good that I did. I was met with a lot of sludge that built up in the pump from it sitting for a few years. I think that had I skipped the replacement of the water pump I might have ended up with an engine that would over heated on me.
I also ran through the installation of a few other items that maybe someone else might find useful as used engines can typically be picked over before getting sold off like mine was.
The next video in the pipes is the replacement of the lower intake manifold gasket as well as the supercharger gasket. I was told that this is a weak point in the 3800 and that it is wise to change it now before it becomes a problem in the future so I heeded that warning.
After that I have a video on the replacement of the supercharger pulley with a 3.4 pulley mostly finished and still waiting on the fuel rail so I can finish that video too. I also have a misc. video of odds and ends I'll be posting before I wire it up next weekend. I'm sure there will be several odds and end videos of things I just can't roll into another video. The momentum is slowing a bit last week with spring activities and birthday's going on but I'm hoping that it doesn't stall out. April and May are the busiest months of the year for me when it comes to birthday's and anniversaries but I'll try and work around them.
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LostNotForgotton
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APR 12, 01:47 PM
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I'm going to add one additional post today that I think will be good for any future builders looking to try this swap. One of the first questions asked is how much is it going to cost to do a 3800 swap. The obvious answer is that it varies depending on one’s abilities as well as parts already on hand from donor cars (3800 and Fiero). So the cost will be a bit higher for someone who has to source their parts individually as well as rely on the welding skills of others to make their custom brackets as opposed to someone who bought a whole donor car and can make their own brackets. I'm not a welder and I do have to source my parts.
The project costs that I've seen floating around that I used to create my budget was numbers in the $3,000-$4,000 range so I went high and budgeted $4,000 for my build. Anyone seeing my recent posts in the Market on parts I’m selling can safely assume, yes, I’ve gone over budget and need to offset some of the cost by selling off excess parts. I keep a detailed record of my build and as of today I'm sitting at $4,958.80. I’ve most everything I need but there are still several hundred dollars in parts I still have to pick up. I was recently questioned as to why my project cost is so high with so few mods so I’m going to take some time to share a section of my project costs here. I’m only going to share the costs up to what I’ve spent making the current videos you see on my channel. I’ll update my cost and parts list as they fit the newly released videos.
Keep this thread saved because I’m sure some of these links will come in VERY handy and save LOT’S of time in searching. I will DISCLAIMER that you need to verify part compatibility with your engine before purchasing parts. Most parts are interchangeable but some might be different based on model and year of your donor engine. Let’s crunch some numbers (yes I work in accounting):
*Any parts bought from RockAuto will have a link to the RockAuto search bar. Just copy and paste the part number in and search for it.*
Skipping the first video on removing the Fiero engine, let’s start with the bushing video. This is a spare cradle I had laying around and decided to give it a face lift before I officially started the build. The cradle is the foundation so I might as well start with the cost of prepping it and then building it from the ground up.
Painting the cradle with a primer and base coat/ clear coat:
11oz prep spay (degreaser/cleaner) – Part# PS100 $7.49
12oz Hi-temp Grey Primer – Part# DE1612 $6.99
12oz Hi-temp Black Paint – Part# DE1613 $6.99
12oz Hi-temp Clear Coat – Part# DE1636 $6.99
For the Bushings we have:
84-87 Polly Rear Control Arm Bushing Kit – Part# 57304 RED $34.95
84-87 Aluminum Engine Cradle Bushings (red) - $98.99
Tie rods and hubs:
84-87 Rear Tie Rod Package – Part# 57511 $95.50
Prescision Automotive Rear Hub – Part# 513011K $44.79 X 2= $89.58
Total cost of everything seen in the Bushing video = $347.48
Moving on to the next video. We have the installation of the transmission using FieroRog’s kit. FieroRog’s kit will be included in this price and not included in the engine conversion video because I had to buy it now in order to have the parts I need.
4T65e-HD (MN7) from a 98 Buick Regal 144,906 miles – Part# HKB 97 XAB $350
3800 Engine and Transmission Brackets from FieroRog - $425
Front Polly Transmission Mount - $79.99
Rear Polly Transmission Mount - $79.99
Total cost of everything seen in the transmission installation video = $934.98
Next up is the axle build video. The axles needed for this build have to be OEM axles and not aftermarket. For these you will have to look at salvage yards and EBay so I won’t have a link. I will share the costs though:
1999 GTP axles from B&H Auto Salvage in Elkton, MD - $70.00 X2 = $140.00
Fiero Manual Transmission Axle – (Had in stock so I did not have to purchase this part) $0
Axle Straps. (two large & two small) from NAPA (I don’t have the part number handy because they just handed me straps) - $7.65
Total cost of everything seen in the axle build video = $147.65
Now we’re looking at the latest video I posted on installing FieroRog’s engine brackets. I’ll include the cost of the 3800 engine here as well as the components installed on it minus the FieroRog kit. That cost was included in the Transmission video.
Supercharged 3800 Series II from a 99 Buick Regal GS (56k miles) - $600
ProStart Remanufactured Alternator – Part# 8234605 $134.99
1995 Ford Taurus Serpentine Belt Tensioner – Part# 419-202 - $35.95
GATES Serpentine Drive Belt - Part# K060815 $20.79
Factory Air by 4 Seasons New GM V5 Compressor w/ Clutch – Part# 57987 $185.59
ProCool New Water Pump – Part# 97152 $34.99
GM 3800 (3.8 L) A.C. COMPRESSOR MOUNTING BRACKET – Part# 24508127 $19.99
Total cost of everything seen in the Engine bracket video = $1,078.70
All together with JUST what you see in these videos I’ve spent $2,508.81. Sure I may have been able to skimp on costs by not buying paint, tie rods, hubs, an AC compressor, water pump, alternator, etc. but these are things that I feel will add longevity to the car by buying new as opposed to reusing old worn parts. I don’t feel that I’ve gone excessively overboard on purchases so the price figure of $3,000-$4,000 can easily be blown out of the water if you have to source a lot of parts.
My overall opinion on the project so far is that it is not a difficult build and actually quite enjoyable to work on. I think that anyone that knows their way around a car should be pretty capable of doing the swap thus far. What really needs to be factored in is budget. This could get expensive fast if you’re hoping to keep a low budget but is totally worth the cost and experience so far. I hope this post sheds some light on build info and provides useful tools (links, pics and videos) to help future builders on their quest for more power.[This message has been edited by LostNotForgotton (edited 04-12-2016).]
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Dennis LaGrua
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APR 13, 09:51 AM
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Excellent helpful post for a 3800 swap. Only one recommendation; I would use Timpken rear hubs instead of those Chinese units. The Chinese units may not hold up. Look online for user reports. . ------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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JohnWPB
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APR 24, 05:31 PM
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Very good information on cost analysis for a 3800 swap. I just watched your motor mount video, and look forward to future videos.
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hypo327
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MAY 24, 06:20 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by LostNotForgotton:
I'm going to add one additional post today that I think will be good for any future builders looking to try this swap. One of the first questions asked is how much is it going to cost to do a 3800 swap. The obvious answer is that it varies depending on one’s abilities as well as parts already on hand from donor cars (3800 and Fiero). So the cost will be a bit higher for someone who has to source their parts individually as well as rely on the welding skills of others to make their custom brackets as opposed to someone who bought a whole donor car and can make their own brackets. I'm not a welder and I do have to source my parts.
The project costs that I've seen floating around that I used to create my budget was numbers in the $3,000-$4,000 range so I went high and budgeted $4,000 for my build. Anyone seeing my recent posts in the Market on parts I’m selling can safely assume, yes, I’ve gone over budget and need to offset some of the cost by selling off excess parts. I keep a detailed record of my build and as of today I'm sitting at $4,958.80. I’ve most everything I need but there are still several hundred dollars in parts I still have to pick up. I was recently questioned as to why my project cost is so high with so few mods so I’m going to take some time to share a section of my project costs here. I’m only going to share the costs up to what I’ve spent making the current videos you see on my channel. I’ll update my cost and parts list as they fit the newly released videos.
Keep this thread saved because I’m sure some of these links will come in VERY handy and save LOT’S of time in searching. I will DISCLAIMER that you need to verify part compatibility with your engine before purchasing parts. Most parts are interchangeable but some might be different based on model and year of your donor engine. Let’s crunch some numbers (yes I work in accounting):
*Any parts bought from RockAuto will have a link to the RockAuto search bar. Just copy and paste the part number in and search for it.*
Skipping the first video on removing the Fiero engine, let’s start with the bushing video. This is a spare cradle I had laying around and decided to give it a face lift before I officially started the build. The cradle is the foundation so I might as well start with the cost of prepping it and then building it from the ground up.
Painting the cradle with a primer and base coat/ clear coat:
11oz prep spay (degreaser/cleaner) – Part# PS100 $7.49
12oz Hi-temp Grey Primer – Part# DE1612 $6.99
12oz Hi-temp Black Paint – Part# DE1613 $6.99
12oz Hi-temp Clear Coat – Part# DE1636 $6.99
For the Bushings we have:
84-87 Polly Rear Control Arm Bushing Kit – Part# 57304 RED $34.95
84-87 Aluminum Engine Cradle Bushings (red) - $98.99
Tie rods and hubs:
84-87 Rear Tie Rod Package – Part# 57511 $95.50
Prescision Automotive Rear Hub – Part# 513011K $44.79 X 2= $89.58
Total cost of everything seen in the Bushing video = $347.48
Moving on to the next video. We have the installation of the transmission using FieroRog’s kit. FieroRog’s kit will be included in this price and not included in the engine conversion video because I had to buy it now in order to have the parts I need.
4T65e-HD (MN7) from a 98 Buick Regal 144,906 miles – Part# HKB 97 XAB $350
3800 Engine and Transmission Brackets from FieroRog - $425
Front Polly Transmission Mount - $79.99
Rear Polly Transmission Mount - $79.99
Total cost of everything seen in the transmission installation video = $934.98
Next up is the axle build video. The axles needed for this build have to be OEM axles and not aftermarket. For these you will have to look at salvage yards and EBay so I won’t have a link. I will share the costs though:
1999 GTP axles from B&H Auto Salvage in Elkton, MD - $70.00 X2 = $140.00
Fiero Manual Transmission Axle – (Had in stock so I did not have to purchase this part) $0
Axle Straps. (two large & two small) from NAPA (I don’t have the part number handy because they just handed me straps) - $7.65
Total cost of everything seen in the axle build video = $147.65
Now we’re looking at the latest video I posted on installing FieroRog’s engine brackets. I’ll include the cost of the 3800 engine here as well as the components installed on it minus the FieroRog kit. That cost was included in the Transmission video.
Supercharged 3800 Series II from a 99 Buick Regal GS (56k miles) - $600
ProStart Remanufactured Alternator – Part# 8234605 $134.99
1995 Ford Taurus Serpentine Belt Tensioner – Part# 419-202 - $35.95
GATES Serpentine Drive Belt - Part# K060815 $20.79
Factory Air by 4 Seasons New GM V5 Compressor w/ Clutch – Part# 57987 $185.59
ProCool New Water Pump – Part# 97152 $34.99
GM 3800 (3.8 L) A.C. COMPRESSOR MOUNTING BRACKET – Part# 24508127 $19.99
Total cost of everything seen in the Engine bracket video = $1,078.70
All together with JUST what you see in these videos I’ve spent $2,508.81. Sure I may have been able to skimp on costs by not buying paint, tie rods, hubs, an AC compressor, water pump, alternator, etc. but these are things that I feel will add longevity to the car by buying new as opposed to reusing old worn parts. I don’t feel that I’ve gone excessively overboard on purchases so the price figure of $3,000-$4,000 can easily be blown out of the water if you have to source a lot of parts.
My overall opinion on the project so far is that it is not a difficult build and actually quite enjoyable to work on. I think that anyone that knows their way around a car should be pretty capable of doing the swap thus far. What really needs to be factored in is budget. This could get expensive fast if you’re hoping to keep a low budget but is totally worth the cost and experience so far. I hope this post sheds some light on build info and provides useful tools (links, pics and videos) to help future builders on their quest for more power.
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Thanks so much for your dedication to film and do these "How-to" videos. Your old 3.4 swap video helped me allot back in 2012, and now your 3800sc video series is helpful too. My only suggestion is, when you have any 84 to 87 cradle out of the car, you should do a bump-steer fix, to make your Fiero go down the road perfectly stable. It's just a matter of cutting off tie rod anchors, flipping them around and re-welding them approx. 3" out-board to line up the joint with the control arm bushings, then cutting off the threaded tie rod ends about 3" and re-threading them. I have a picture album of the procedure in my face book picture albums, also in Onix Taveras' up-grades and repairs link. I'll be referring to your other 3800 swap videos.[This message has been edited by hypo327 (edited 05-24-2016).]
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zzzhuh
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JUN 08, 04:33 PM
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Bump it up!
Whats new with the car man?
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LostNotForgotton
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JUL 03, 11:00 PM
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Sorry for falling off the Earth for a while. Life threw me a few curve balls over the past few months that I've had to deal with. April and May are typically the busiest months of the year when it comes to birthdays and anniversaries so it was already a bit of a challenge as it was to keep my 3800 project on task. On April 22nd (the day after my birthday) my wife was in an accident in her Buick Enclave. She was ok for the most part but the car didn't survive. It was a great car too! So I've had to take time to work that out with the insurance company.
Once we got the ball rolling on getting that cleared up I decided to start sourcing a new family car. Anyone who knows me knows that I like cars that can't be mistaken for anyone elses. I found a 2004 Ford E150 Sherrod conversion van in north Jersey for a pretty good price. When I got there I found that none of the rear electronics worked so I talked the dealer into a sweet price and took it home. The next day I gutted the rear of the car and found that someone poorly rewired the car so I wired it up better than it was originally and put it back together. I love this van! I could go on and on about it.
Then on May 10th I get pulled into my bosses office and told that the company I've been working for for over 10 years is restructuring and that I won't be a part of that. I was laid off so fast that I didn't even get to finish the day out. Not only was I not able to finish the day but I didn't even have a chance to sign any off-boarding paperwork. They said they'd FedEx it to me to sign and send back. That was quite a bombshell!
A week later my main desktop computer crashes and I can't get it to boot up even with a Windows 7 disc. Now I've lost all the video work I had done on at least 4 unpublished videos. The editing software is gone too as I had purchased a one time download several years ago. My videos are stored on a seperate drive so they are fine but all the editing I've done on 4 videos that were ready to render and upload to YouTube are gone. I have to start from scratch. I've also lost a bit of my 3800 parts spreadsheet used to track parts, prices and links. I maintained that on my work computer but I did email it to myself a few months ago so I have an older version I can try and salvage and update.
Over the next few weeks I applied for unemployment but got denied, applied for food assistance (I have 5 girls) and got denied. I did get a severance but I need to strectch that as much as I can until I can get on my feet. DE's unemplyment only pays $330 a week and I don't want to get to a point where that is my only source of income. The whole sytem seems screwed up. A family of 7 has to wait until there is no more money in the bank in order to collect $330 a week which wouldn't even keep a roof over their heads. Food stamps was an even bigger joke.
Anyway. Needless to say I've been offline and MIA for the past few months. I haven't done anything with the car or the videos. I'm working through things and picking myself up again. The computer is running and I've purchased Pinnacle Studio 19 to start editing videos again. I had 15 before and there is quite a big learning curve. They changed A LOT since Studio 15. Hopefully a new video will be ready in a few weeks.
Still looking for a job. I've worked in finance for over 10 years but I'm feeling that life is calling me in a different direction. We shal see what that might be.
I've been getting the Fiero bug again lately and have the urge to get back in the garage again and start working on the car more. It will help get my mind off of other things. I have a lot of 3800 conversion parts but still missing some. I'll work on the 3800 swap and pump out videos until I get to a point where I have to buy more parts and that is where I'll stop for now. Hopefully when I get working again I can continue to fund Fiero projects and videos because I enjoy both. My posts may be spotty so be patient. I definently don't mind anyone checking up or checking in. Keep checking back and hopefully I'll have some new posts shortly. Right now I'm re-eding the 3800 lower intake gasket video. Next will be swapping the super charges pulley. I have a few others to edit as well. I'll also be filiming the installation of an updated transmission bracket from FieroRog so look for that coming soon. After thai I hope to wiring everything up.
Happy 4th of July to all!!
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JohnWPB
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JUL 04, 12:58 AM
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Wow, I am SO sorry to hear all the crap you have been through recently! I certainly think it's time for things to start turning around for you!
By the way, I just sent you an email to the address you used here on the forum.
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Dennis LaGrua
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JUL 07, 03:15 PM
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Great thread. Really clean work. Sorry to hear that life has dealt you a few curves but that's just the way it it. My Chrysler 300 was just totaled, no injuries, but its off to the salvage yard. Purchased a lightly used 2015 300 from the online Manheim auction courtesy of my friend Carfinder Fred. Its on a truck coming up from Florida right now. Point is that life must go on and new opportunities eventually present themselves. Meanwhile keep up the great work and the 3800SC install. You will really love the performance. ------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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