Fiero's off spring (Page 3/4)
cvxjet JUN 27, 12:01 PM
There is a book about the gestation of the 1997 C5 Corvette; "All Corvettes are Red" by James Schefter......One of the smartest things anyone at GM ever did was the Corvette team did not just ask Vette people "What should we change when we design the new Vette?" (The reply "Absolutely nothing!) but actually went out and asked 911 owners, Supra owners, etc "What do you NOT like about the Vette?"

This led to HUGE improvements in the Vette.....Sometimes, asking the RIGHT question of the RIGHT people will improve a vehicle (Or any product) more than all other forms of research.

I worked at NAS Alameda reworking S-3 aircraft....Hated the job for 8 years, and then we started using Total Quality Management (TQM) and , instead of bosses yelling at us, they started to listen to the workers; At one point we had been working 10/6 because we were behind; The reason we were behind was because a bunch of landing gear struts had to be sent out to be re-chromed......We had NOTHING to do, but if you tried to tell the bosses you'd be wrote up. TQM completely changed that- everything improved.

Any time you have a boss who believes that the only reason for existence is Self-aggrandizement you are in deep, deep trouble........
hyperv6 JUN 27, 06:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by mousemeat:


I still disagree about the projected 2nd gen of the Solstice...It would have happened in my opinion... but it's an moot point ...sorta like debating what would have happened if the Titanic avoided the ice berg....lol.....yeah, for the most part-sports cars are not meant to be major revenue generations...but an little something like PZZZZZZZ in
the builders current line up........and once again, the miata had 20 years. and over those two decades...there were tweaks across the board....look at the first one offered..and look at the current one.......and of course, the price increases......and again, I ponder what might have happened to the Fiero for 1989, 1990, even 1991....but we will never know....but at least we have those five years..and if you look not only at this forum, but across the NET itself, there's a interest and support for it...

as for kids NOT having interest in cars, may be true in your neck of the world, but in my sector, young guys here are still car crazy...ranging from ancient Land cruisers, Troopers, 60's muscle cars, to current mustangs, and other similar vehicles.........

all in all...I've enjoyed reading the comments on this thread.....thanks to everyone who's taken the time..to offer their 2 cents...



The Solstice would have been a tough buisness case to promote for a healthy Pontiac a weak one even more so. Just look at the last two years of production numbers.

The Miata has only had three gens. Each got minor tweaks. But again look at the numbers global sales and only global sales kept it alive.

The recent numbers on the third gen are not doing well. Time could be running out unless they gain traction.

As for where I am from it the second largest state for registered collector cars and hot rods. I also work in the performance racing industry. While you local area may be strong the entire market is struggling to get new young people involved at a level like it was in the past.

Many events are nothing but old people. I was at one and took a phot as it looked like a nursing home with cars. I am over 50 and I was one of the young guys.

Kids today are limited in cars mostly due to the social aspect of the web. They no longer have to use cars to socialize. The cost also has become a factor as well as the technical advancements that have driven up the cost of modifications.

Don’t get me wrong there are still some kids out there but not like it used to be. That is not just my opinion but also the major concern of organization like SEMA and others.

I remember in the 80s when muscle cars were cheap and plentiful we could get 500 plus cars to a local parking lot to hang out 3 nights a week. Racing was common and that is were you had to be and be seen.

It is common now for many kids not even getting their license till 18 or later.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 06-27-2018).]

hyperv6 JUN 27, 06:47 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

There is a book about the gestation of the 1997 C5 Corvette; "All Corvettes are Red" by James Schefter......One of the smartest things anyone at GM ever did was the Corvette team did not just ask Vette people "What should we change when we design the new Vette?" (The reply "Absolutely nothing!) but actually went out and asked 911 owners, Supra owners, etc "What do you NOT like about the Vette?"

This led to HUGE improvements in the Vette.....Sometimes, asking the RIGHT question of the RIGHT people will improve a vehicle (Or any product) more than all other forms of research.


I worked at NAS Alameda reworking S-3 aircraft....Hated the job for 8 years, and then we started using Total Quality Management (TQM) and , instead of bosses yelling at us, they started to listen to the workers; At one point we had been working 10/6 because we were behind; The reason we were behind was because a bunch of landing gear struts had to be sent out to be re-chromed......We had NOTHING to do, but if you tried to tell the bosses you'd be wrote up. TQM completely changed that- everything improved.

Any time you have a boss who believes that the only reason for existence is Self-aggrandizement you are in deep, deep trouble........



Yes asking the right questions is very important.

The rest is listening and acting on the answers is the second issue. Sometimes companies only hear what they want or egos take over.
mousemeat JUN 27, 07:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


Yes asking the right questions is very important.

The rest is listening and acting on the answers is the second issue. Sometimes companies only hear what they want or egos take over.



exactly....and it has been their undoing.....at times......
mousemeat JUN 27, 08:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by hyperv6:


The Solstice would have been a tough buisness case to promote for a healthy Pontiac a weak one even more so. Just look at the last two years of production numbers.

The Miata has only had three gens. Each got minor tweaks. But again look at the numbers global sales and only global sales kept it alive.

The recent numbers on the third gen are not doing well. Time could be running out unless they gain traction.

As for where I am from it the second largest state for registered collector cars and hot rods. I also work in the performance racing industry. While you local area may be strong the entire market is struggling to get new young people involved at a level like it was in the past.

Many events are nothing but old people. I was at one and took a phot as it looked like a nursing home with cars. I am over 50 and I was one of the young guys.

Kids today are limited in cars mostly due to the social aspect of the web. They no longer have to use cars to socialize. The cost also has become a factor as well as the technical advancements that have driven up the cost of modifications.

Don’t get me wrong there are still some kids out there but not like it used to be. That is not just my opinion but also the major concern of organization like SEMA and others.

I remember in the 80s when muscle cars were cheap and plentiful we could get 500 plus cars to a local parking lot to hang out 3 nights a week. Racing was common and that is were you had to be and be seen.

It is common now for many kids not even getting their license till 18 or later.




I would like to think in an alternative universe, the Solstice got an second generation..and did well......yeah, I can sorta concur with the lack of young people..at many events....but keep in mind, many 'muscle' cars, and hot rods of years past, are highly expensive..big bucks.....which could be out of the reach of many younger car geeks

still there are some young guys taking up the torch...but then again, social media, like taken the place of cruising ..and do high schools even teach driver's ed anymore ?

I took mine in 1967, only to get a legal license....but I all ready knew how to drive a car, hanging out with a lot of greasers, ..who had great rides....much better than the hippies of that era.....yeah, the world has changed...and it depends on your out look has it been good or bad........and boy, don't start me on OHIO.....being an michigan man..LOL!

spend many summers in the late 50's and early 60's, in both Elyria, and Niles.....I was lucky to grow up IN DETROIT....the center of the automotive universe...

I'm hoping one day, GM will once again...consider an mid engine 2 seater....even bringing back and tweaking the FIERO..probably will never happen..but an old gear head can dream, eh ?
cvxjet JUN 27, 09:51 PM
Sadly, there will be another mid-engined american sports car; The next Vette will be mid-engined, and apparently will cost at least twice as much..."The Corvette is now an Exclusive car- no peasants need apply!"

If the Vette is ME, then there will never be any low-priced ME car allowed......The only two cars now aimed at entry level, fun sports car ownership are the Miata and the 86/BRZ twins...Everything else is much more expensive and usually way too powerful......I would not trust any of the drivers I see with 400 hp.......Hell, I had a 1999 Formula F-bird with 310 hp......Most drivers WOULD (Not Could) get in serious trouble with that car......
mousemeat JUN 28, 01:45 AM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Sadly, there will be another mid-engined american sports car; The next Vette will be mid-engined, and apparently will cost at least twice as much..."The Corvette is now an Exclusive car- no peasants need apply!"

If the Vette is ME, then there will never be any low-priced ME car allowed......The only two cars now aimed at entry level, fun sports car ownership are the Miata and the 86/BRZ twins...Everything else is much more expensive and usually way too powerful......I would not trust any of the drivers I see with 400 hp.......Hell, I had a 1999 Formula F-bird with 310 hp......Most drivers WOULD (Not Could) get in serious trouble with that car......




how true....but the vette is so expensive these daus....truly the car of blue bloods........Since we are reflecting on two seaters..on this forum..
does anyone have any opinion on BMW's Z series...the Z 3 and Z 4...
longjonsilver JUN 28, 11:52 AM
Any auto company that produces a 2 seater, like a sports car, has to understand that it is basically competing with things like motorcycles for the public's money. i say my Fiero is my motorcycle, because like most motorcycles, you can only take two people.
jon

------------------
I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun! 3800 SC swap to come!

hyperv6 JUN 28, 02:17 PM

quote
Originally posted by mousemeat:


I would like to think in an alternative universe, the Solstice got an second generation..and did well......yeah, I can sorta concur with the lack of young people..at many events....but keep in mind, many 'muscle' cars, and hot rods of years past, are highly expensive..big bucks.....which could be out of the reach of many younger car geeks

still there are some young guys taking up the torch...but then again, social media, like taken the place of cruising ..and do high schools even teach driver's ed anymore ?

I took mine in 1967, only to get a legal license....but I all ready knew how to drive a car, hanging out with a lot of greasers, ..who had great rides....much better than the hippies of that era.....yeah, the world has changed...and it depends on your out look has it been good or bad........and boy, don't start me on OHIO.....being an michigan man..LOL!

spend many summers in the late 50's and early 60's, in both Elyria, and Niles.....I was lucky to grow up IN DETROIT....the center of the automotive universe...

I'm hoping one day, GM will once again...consider an mid engine 2 seater....even bringing back and tweaking the FIERO..probably will never happen..but an old gear head can dream, eh ?



I wish it had a longer life. I had looked at the Targa coupe model but the wife said one two seat car was enough at the time.

I understand the expense of older muscle cars well. But the 4th gen F bodies and the Mustangs are dirt cheap but so few are going to them. I had a neighbor that tried to sell a 2002 SS Camaro with 17K miles for $17K. He had all the SLP stuff on it too. He sat on it for 2 years and dumped it for $9K. Supplies are high and demand is low on these cars. The LT1 is even cheap to fix up.

I at one time has prime condition 68 SS Chevelle. 70 Monte Carlo and 72 GMC Sprint SP [the SS version of the GMC model Big Block]

Yes there are still some kids but not like it used to be. Many grew up in mini vans and Honda's. There is still strong truck segment and Jeep.
They are some of the best growing segments in the performance aftermarket.

Well the Vette is coming for Mid Engine and many will be surprised at what you will get and how low the price will be. Yes it will be expensive but nothing is cheap in this age of nearly $40K Malibu 4 cylinders.

I have see some things on what is coming and it is going to be fun. Even if you can't buy a new one a good used one in a few years will be affordable and low mile.
hyperv6 JUN 28, 02:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Sadly, there will be another mid-engined american sports car; The next Vette will be mid-engined, and apparently will cost at least twice as much..."The Corvette is now an Exclusive car- no peasants need apply!"

If the Vette is ME, then there will never be any low-priced ME car allowed......The only two cars now aimed at entry level, fun sports car ownership are the Miata and the 86/BRZ twins...Everything else is much more expensive and usually way too powerful......I would not trust any of the drivers I see with 400 hp.......Hell, I had a 1999 Formula F-bird with 310 hp......Most drivers WOULD (Not Could) get in serious trouble with that car......



Well you will have some surprises coming. While the Corvette is not cheap what car is? This is an age of $40K Malibu's and $65K trucks. The average price of a vehicle is over $36K today. Even a Miata starts at $25 and nears $40K if you get a decent one.

But with that said you should see the Vette prices go up just a small bit for the base models. They will not double in price. Look for the standard model well optioned at $75K but it will still be a lot of car for the money. The up models will grow in price but will still be far below the $170K for the Audi or McLaren mid engines. Also the upper level cars will out run the GT at ford for 1/4 the price.

As for low cost mid engines that time has come and past. Just too impractical for the average buyers. They want trunks and ability to weekend without garbage bags luggage.

Note today to that most cars today are at or close to 300 HP now. That is just a normal car anymore. My truck and the wife's SUV are over 300 HP and that is just average anymore. Fast does not start till you get to 450 HP or more. .

Note too if the Vette is too much just wait a couple years and you will get a good low mile one for much less. Just look at the C6 models that have below 20K miles selling in the teens. The ME will do the same if it sells in good volumes as expected.

[This message has been edited by hyperv6 (edited 06-28-2018).]