Building our Lemons/Chumpcar (Page 27/29) DonP FEB 22, 10:17 PM A week after our return from Thunderhill, we had the opportunity to get back on the Reno-Fernley track with the Reno-SCCA. If you recall from a much earlier post, Rich and I had drawn Sam McCord as our instructor for our first SCCA track day. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/090867-4.html#p154 Anyway, Sam was intrigued. Once we introduced him to the whole Lemons concept, he actually got onto another team. He had been driving with the Mustang guys. And at Buttonwillow we had let him drive the Fiero. So we called Sam up to go over the car on the track day. Sam brought his brother Alan with whom he has been vintage racing that Lotus for, well, forever. Obviously with the Lotus being a mid-engined car, we had hopes Sam and Alan would be a good resource. After taking Sam out for a few laps Rich asked for his opinion. Remember, Sam had driven on Buttonwillow before any of the suspension modifications. Much faster than we had. Sam actually gave some thought to the question, dissected a couple turns and the cars transient responses and came to the same conclusion we had. The car was significantly better but was being let down by the shocks. The spring rates were appropriate but not sufficiently controlled. Everyone agreed that the next step should be to purchase newer, better shocks. So Rich and I did the only really logical thing. We sold the car. wftb FEB 23, 07:53 PM I am hoping there is a catch to what you just said .We have not seen the area 51 themed car yet .So I hope you got another fiero and the story is not over .Love the racing links , thanks for a great thread . DonP FEB 23, 11:23 PM quote Originally posted by wftb: I am hoping there is a catch to what you just said .We have not seen the area 51 themed car yet .So I hope you got another fiero and the story is not over .Love the racing links , thanks for a great thread . Short answer (you know there's a much longer version being written) is that the car was sold, continues to run very effectively as the Area 51 car. I'll have some of that story and pictures I'm compiling. We built another car. Fiero elements, but definitely different. I'll give an overview shortly. Don thesameguy FEB 25, 03:20 PM Mind = blown I've been following this thread since the beginning and it's been a treat... sad to hear the journey came to an end! (Side note: My friend drives that '83 533i ) DonP FEB 25, 10:13 PM quote Originally posted by thesameguy: (Side note: My friend drives that '83 533i ) Cervezza racing are always a threat to win. They are very good drivers. Aggressive and if you watched that video you can see that they drive very far ahead and read the traffic in order to put themselves in the right place at the right time. I loved the race at Thunderhill where Jay Lamm, the series organizer finally had enough of the complaints about the fastest guys using built/cheaty engines and that's why they won. The "bastiges." So he paid the on-site dyno to run the top five cars at the end of Saturdays race. Every hp over the "spec" would result in some penalty. The leaders, Cervezza racing were supposed to be putting out something like 205 horsepower. They came in well under that power level. So Jay was able to say that just perhaps they were winning because they were better drivers than all those people complaining. Of course at least one car came in well over the stated spec. But the point had been made. The Fiero has continued to race. And I'll give a brief write-up about their great results. But of course I'm limited in describing what has been done to the car since we had it. Thanks for the nice comment. Don thesameguy FEB 26, 03:21 PM I raced against a few obvious cheater cars, but I don't actually remember a time when the cheater cars were real threats to the podium. You'd see them out there pulling everything in the straights and losing people in the corners, but whether by mishap or lack of talent they never spent enough time on track to win. Most of the victors are just really good drivers in average cars set up well. Often times maddeningly so - for many years we had one of the fastest cars with some reasonably talented drivers, but these top teams would always stay just ahead, just out of reach. So frustrating! I guess the upside of this thread ending is maybe I well be less tempted to jump back into the ring. Been eyeing a friend's disused XR4Ti... DonP FEB 27, 11:06 PM We actually ended up selling the car to Sam and his brother Alan. (Hope I'm spelling his name right. Allen?) They had been racing Sam's Lotus for a couple decades. Also on board was Craig who we learned had actually raced against Sam at the inaugural Reno Gran Prix held in the Hilton (now Grand Sierra or GSR if it matters.) driving I believe Formula Fords. A fourth partner was brought on-board but I cannot remember his name. Let's get the first thing out of the way. This is how the car looked at their first race in March of 2014 at Sears Point/Sonoma Raceway. Okay, they had a better theme than we did. Obviously the Area 51/White Men In Black theme was a winner. Sam actually owns a Pug and had a black suit made for it. He got strict orders from Mrs. Sam that the dog was off-limits. So I'm not sure who the stand-in was. A few this to note. Francis T commented in a private message that we really "needs and effect -in the air-stream- wing." The Area 51 boys were all over that and eliminated the rear wing in favor of a rear spoiler bracketed by those huge wings. He also commented http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/090867-6.html#p208 that we should be adding a splitter. They had already gone down that road. Sam said they could actually stand on that front splitter. Having driven the car in both configurations, Sam reported huge gains in handling. And who wouldn't run a pair of .50 cals on the roof of their Stealth Alien Hunter? I'm not sure why they left the passenger seat installed in the car. I wanted to get something up to show that the car continues to race. I need to contact Sam and ask for a more comprehensive story on their efforts. As I write this, I know they have been accepted for the next race at Sonoma March 21-25 2015, just a few weeks away. DonP MAR 07, 11:58 PM The Final pictures of the Fiero as it departed Rich's driveway on it's way to a new home. Of course we gave them the original front cradle. It's always good to have spares at the track. It's hard to continue the story on the Fiero as I was obviously no longer involved in the updates or repairs. But here goes. We sold the car without the engine. We already had thoughts on our next project and the 3800SC, coupled to our spare Getrag would slide in nicely. Sam's crew had no problems with that as they knew how easily the engine could be replaced. So between the time we sold them the car, on October 10th and their first race in March, they had a bit of work to do. They found a running car with a 3800SC in California. I believe Sam was able to drive it home which raised everyone's confidence. I do know that in the transplant they took the much easier route and left the alternator in it's original location. That meant they had to notch the inner deck lid support for clearance. I heard a rumor that they terrorized the neighborhood on a couple test runs before hiding,.. uh before moving back into the workshop. Yes, they evidently have a workshop instead of a garage. Obviously the Area 51 theme for the car took time and effort. And I think they found one of the suspension gurus here on the forum for a long discussion of springs and shocks. And the other improvement I am aware of was the addition of an expansion tank in the cooling system. This made filling and burping the system much easier. You can see the new engine here along with the expansion tank. The Stealth Alien Hunters car debuted at Sonoma in March of 2014. The Fiero Libre car was also there. They showed up at tech with this set-up. I'm guessing in response to "other" supercharged Fieros. The race was not without drama for the Stealth Alien Hunters. 168 cars started the race and at the conclusion on Sunday, Stealth finished 59th. They completed 286 laps, versus the winning Porsche 944S with 352 laps. The Fiero Libre guys finished 29th over-all with 315 completed laps. The Stealth guys ran off a 2:06:082 lap versus 2:07:823 for Fiero Libre and 1:59:622 for the winning Porsche. But the Stealth Alien Hunters suffered engine problems which was later diagnosed as a bad head gasket. None of these problems had shown up while terrorizing the neighborhood. But then that's what endurance racing will do for you. The official video wrap up can be found here. https://www.youtube.com/wat...BfniYNHDS9Izu8diHH7A I do not vouch for the "humor." Sam's guys had the head gasket problem fixed in time to attend a Reno-SCCA test day at Reno-Fernley Raceway. The engine seemed good to go, but they had a mishap when a rear brake caliper let loose and wedged in against the hub. That was easily fixed from the stack of spare parts we had included in the purchase. But it did have consequences later. On May 31 and June 1st, the 24 Hours of LeMons traveling show took over Miller Motorsport Park in Tooele Utah. http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/ This was the first time that the LeMons group had visited Miller Motorsport. I had been there once to witness the Grand Am series as well as the final Mustang Challenge race and was really looking forward to making the event with our new project car. Unfortunately we were not ready and had to miss the race. But Sam and the Stealth Alien Hunters managed to make the trip. The Mustang guys also made the long haul. From the forum here, Canyonflyer made the long trip from... wait a minute he was a local. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/094136.html LeMons wisely chose to use the 2.240 mile East Track configuration instead of the full course. Had they used the full-length front straight-away it's likely at least half the field would have blown up. With their newly installed afterburners and reconfigured rear spoiler, the Stealth Alien Hunters were prepared to dominate! Unfortunately, it didn't quite happen that way. With a short field of 67 cars, the Fiero finished in 21st place overall with 337 completed laps. The overall winner ran 391 laps, some 5 laps ahead of the second place car who had a fast lap time some 4+ seconds faster. Even though the Fiero ran a fast lap nearly 5 seconds faster, the Mustang guys placed 5th in class, 1 place ahead of the 6th in class finishing Fiero. The Mustang finished 18 laps up in 15th place overall. A Real crowd favorite. Even though the Fiero was one of the fastest cars on the track, they also had problems. That rear caliper incident at Reno-Fernley had come back to haunt the team. Alan was out on track and started hearing something. And the car started to lose it's handling. He came in with the diagnosis of a failing front hub. The team was aware of the fact that the '88 front hubs are a weak point. They also knew we had installed Rodney Dickman's upgraded front hubs. They gave the front hubs a close look-over while changing drivers. Grant went out and came back reporting the same thing. I believe they lost over a half hour during these two stops looking for a problem. Ultimately they found that it was NOT a front hub but a rear hub that was giving them fits. The hub which had been jammed by that rear caliper was actually cracked between the studs. They were devastated. But then someone asked "didn't they give us some new hubs in that pile of spare parts when we bought the car?" Yup, we had. I think Canyonflyer reported that Sam talked to him about extra lug nuts because the new hubs had not had their studs changed. So they got up and running. Lots of lost time. They lost the other rear hub later in the day. And yes, we had provided two rear hubs. I believe they were able to change it out after Saturdays racing stopped. Given the mechanical problems with the hubs, their final results were very positive. Everyone agreed that the Miller Motorsport Park is a truly spectacular facility. And the staff was as top notch as the facility. We look forward to racing our vehicle there later this year. Miller video Wrap up https://www.youtube.com/wat...Qpw&feature=youtu.be The next race was back at Thunderhill in Willows California. The guys really started to shine there. DonP MAR 08, 09:34 PM The Fiero returned to Thunderhill on September 13 - 14, 2014. This was the inaugural LeMons race on the new 5 mile course. And it was AWESOME! Some enterprising soul put in the work and submitted the event to the Guinness Book of World Records for the largest field of cars starting a single race. The Official record listed 216 cars taking the green flag. But the actual time sheets show 228 cars being timed at some point during the weekend. And over 240 actually registered. Note that not all 216 or 228 cars are shown in this photo. It was a very time consuming process getting everyone lined up prior to the race. Particularly since most of us didn't know what was happening. I know that 216 cars sounds insane. Well it is, but I mean it sounds worse than it is. If you recall, the previous year we had 184 cars on a 2 mile course. This year we had 216 on a 5-mile course. After the start it was rarely congested to the point that it was a concern. Think of driving on a freeway. But with something like this right next to you. We saw the infamous and very fast Model T GT at the hotel. Yes, it is licensed and can drive on the street or o the races. Anyway, back to the story. The good news was that the Stealth Alien Hunters trounced the Mustang. And the Fiero Libre car, now going under the name "Fiero Jackson." The Stealth drivers came in 5th in class, and 29th over-all. The Mustang guys finished 7th in the same class 1 lap down to Stealth and 31st over-all. Fiero Jackson came in 100th over-all. I'm not sure if Peter had sold the former Fiero Libre but I'm sure we saw him at the track. Head-On Photos is a professional photo group. You can see many pictures of the Stealth Alien Hunter cars here. http://headonphotos.net/gal...NS14-2/51/index.html Sam's guys got very creative and came up with a solution to the fueling problem. The Mustang guys have been running a fuel cell. With the cell, they could dump fuel in as fast as it would flow from the container. That enabled them to get in and out in a very small fraction of the time Sam's guys needed. They were getting killed in the pits. What they developed was a way to vent the stock tank for quicker fuel stops. They still weren't as quick as the Mustang, but it was enough to even up the contest. Of course it didn't help when Sam had to take evasive maneuvers at one point and went off the track backwards at just over 100 mph. The black flag took time to deal with. But overall it was a successful weekend. The official wrap-up video is here. https://www.youtube.com/wat...qNc&feature=youtu.be Sonoma in December was another great event for the Fiero. Unfortunately, I don't have much to tell. But I can say that when we were home watching the live scoring over the internet, we saw the Fiero set the fastest lap. And held it for maybe 10 minutes. At the end of the day, they held the 4th fastest lap for the event. They finished in 12th place overall out of 175 entries. Unfortunately they were second in class two laps down to first. I do know that they were hit in the rear with enough force to remove the afterburners. Repairs have been made and the team is ready to continue at Sears point later this month. Oh, and at Thunderhill, Rich, Robert, Doug, Paula and I debuted our latest project. Unfortunately, fuel delivery problems on the new vehicle meant we were not at all competitive. We were working on the fuel system into the night. Even though we did not place very well in the race itself, we had a terrific weekend highlighted by winning the Judges choice award for our new vehicle. Honestly, that was a huge pick-me-up for the whole team. Our original plans for the new vehicle was to debut at Sonoma in March. idn't happen. Then Miller Motorsport in May. Not ready. Surely The Ridge in Washington State. Nope. but we did make our first showing at Thunderhill. You may recall that we kept the 3800SC out of the Fiero to mate to a Getrag. We liked the mid-engine concept a lot. So what did we build? This. . . . . . . . A mid-engine S-10 extended cab pickup with fiero suspension(parts) I like this photo but never actually got around to purchasing it. http://headonphotos.net/gal...agepages/image7.html Bridgetown MAR 08, 10:28 PM That truck is awesome! Do you have a build thread?