So expressing one's opinion is now considered "thoughtless comments"?
I took more offence to how you addressed Blooz than to your original comments describing the car. I doubt Blooz has ever addressed you in a non-respectful manner, and yet you felt the need to respond to him in a condescending tone. Was that really necessary?
quote
Originally posted by jscott1:
Sorry if I offended anyone's delicate sensitivities....
I don't see how the car can be described as "ugly" I can't see a lot of difference between it and a real one but even if it is not exact does it have to be exact or it's ugly? Every car I have ever customized became 'not exact' but they were always an improvement in my eyes. Obviously beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and my current rebody is not 100% exact and there are many legitimate criticisms that could be made. Ugly is not a nice thing to say.
No. I've seen plenty of ugly real Ferraris and Lambos too.
Originally posted by Bloozberry: Thanks for your opinion dobey, it matters as much to me, as mine apparently does to you. If this thread were specifically about Troy's Enterra, my posts would remain exactly as they are. In fact, it wouldn't matter if it were about anyone else's car either, including yours. However, in a thread specifically targeting your car as "ugly as sin", I sincerely doubt you would be on the same soap box.
If you want to express an opinion designed to offend others, do it in O/T. You keep spilling that crap over into the rest of the forum under the guise of free speech and I can guarantee I will not be the only one to leave. Your belief that an individual's right to speak his mind trumps everyone else's right to a non-confrontational forum has obviously served you well so far.
I really don't care if you think my car is ugly or not. Heck, it's ugly to me right now too. It's been sitting in my garage basically unmoved for a few years, collecting dust, and some mice got into it. It's ugly and it smells bad. My truck is pretty ugly right now too, because we got about 6" of snow and ice a couple nights ago, and I live in the south, so everyone here is totally unprepared for such a storm. Now my beautiful truck is covered in salty sludge.
I don't spill any crap over from O/T into the rest of the forum. I don't even go into the O/T forum. And I do not have that belief about free speech. One's freedoms end when they then prevent another from perusing their freedoms. However, jscott1, no2pencil, nor myself, using the word ugly to describe a car prevents you, nor anyone else, from thinking it is not. You are still free to think that, and say so, just as we are free to think it is ugly, and to say so. Because neither of those personal opinions on the looks of a vehicle, prevents the other party from holding to their own personal opinions of the vehicle.
Okay rather than watch this post go down in flames I'll offer a heart felt apology...
I'm sorry if someone's hard work and dedication was disparaged. It was not to my liking, but I should have more carefully considered the owner's feelings. I know my cars are not perfect by any stretch and everyone is entitled to an opinion. If you don't like them so be it, I don't take offense if you don't like my cars. I didn't mean anything personal against the owner if he's on here... I'm sorry.
Blooz - sorry my apology was "tongue in cheek" as you say and not sincere I was not trying to be cheeky and it's difficult to see tone in the written word, so maybe I didn't chose my words carefully enough. I was trying to state my opinion on replicas... but I've been carefully advised to follow the old advice that if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all.
Jscott, you are a good man. For my part, I apologize for blind-siding you with my comment. I should have PM'ed you first.
Dobey, I'll be PM'ing Cliff to get his opinion whether he believes there is a place on this forum for threads designed specifically to single out other people's cars for the purpose of posting derogatory comments. If he believes, like you appear to, that it's fine, then I no longer have an interest participating in this forum. It's a principle that I cannot easily let go of. I am tired of fighting for what I believe to be common decency among members. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when that line has been crossed no matter how you spin it.
Jscott, you are a good man. For my part, I apologize for blind-siding you with my comment. I should have PM'ed you first.
Dobey, I'll be PM'ing Cliff to get his opinion whether he believes there is a place on this forum for threads designed specifically to single out other people's cars for the purpose of posting derogatory comments. If he believes, like you appear to, that it's fine, then I no longer have an interest participating in this forum. It's a principle that I cannot easily let go of. I am tired of fighting for what I believe to be common decency among members. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when that line has been crossed no matter how you spin it.
Blooz thanks for accepting my apology. I was taken aback by the reaction to my post. I've deleted my comments as I don't want to perpetuate any negative thoughts.
I hope there is never a section for specifically posting derogatory comments. I would hope that we have more respect for members vehicles. The anti-forum had a section specifically for making fun of PFF. It was a sad thing really.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-18-2015).]
Jscott, you are a good man. For my part, I apologize for blind-siding you with my comment. I should have PM'ed you first.
Dobey, I'll be PM'ing Cliff to get his opinion whether he believes there is a place on this forum for threads designed specifically to single out other people's cars for the purpose of posting derogatory comments. If he believes, like you appear to, that it's fine, then I no longer have an interest participating in this forum. It's a principle that I cannot easily let go of. I am tired of fighting for what I believe to be common decency among members. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when that line has been crossed no matter how you spin it.
Blooz, you are confused. I do not believe there is a place on this forum to single out other cars for such purpose. However, I did not create this thread, either.
Perhaps you would like to call out everyone else in this thread who made a comment about how it doesn't have 250 hp, too, and not just the ones who state that they do not like the looks of the car?
I don't know what your issue is with me personally, but you are making many wild and grandiose assumptions about me, when the only thing I did was respond to your own condescension of a couple other members, and claim that I too thought it was ugly. That is all I ever said on the matter. I think it's ugly, and there are many subtle differences from the original which make it that way. I'm glad it's a Fiero that's still alive and rolling. If you want to buy it and fix whatever problems you think it has, then by all means do so. Your responses to my posts on this thread though, have clearly been about more than just this thread. If you have some problem with me, then please PM me to discuss it, and don't turn on a tirade against me in threads, for things you seem to think I do or have done consistently, though I haven't.
No. I've seen plenty of ugly real Ferraris and Lambos too.
Well no wonder we disagree. I don't think that I've ever seen an ugly Ferrari or Lambo. Maybe a wrecked one. I was never tempted to alter the Italian styling of my rebody like I did to many of my other cars. My sense of style falls far short of theirs. My rebody was never to pretend that I had a $300,000 car. I just like their looks.
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 02-19-2015).]
I think cars are a little like women, what one person thinks is nice looking another person thinks isn't.
Agreed, but yet I am betting that the guys bashing kit cars or other people's work on their cars are not going up to the guys of these women and saying "Man your woman looks like **** " or "What a mess, is that the best you can do?", "Something just don't look right" etc. etc.
I tend to agree with you that O/T doesn't really belong as a part of the Fiero forum. I don't post on it nearly as much as I used to because it really is just a political thread and everyone has their opinion on everything and are very quick to trash anyone with an opposing viewpoint. I think it should be spun off to a different website. A lot of the people who post there no longer have a Fiero or any interest in Fieros. Any non-owner can always post in technical or general they don't need O/T. A car enthusiast friend of mine was very surprised that this forum had the O/T section.
If you want this forum to change like you have been beating on for a while now, then feel free to start your own. Stay out of O/T? There is a concept. Not a single person here makes you open that section of a forum. Or do they? At this very moment a black helicopter is hovering over my cardboard box, and telling me that I have to write this sentence.
Agreed, but yet I am betting that the guys bashing kit cars or other people's work on their cars are not going up to the guys of these women and saying "Man your woman looks like **** " or "What a mess, is that the best you can do?", "Something just don't look right" etc. etc.
I thought the kit car was ugly because none of the body lines flowed together like they do on the real car. The panel gaps were also a distraction. That's what gets me about most kit cars and it's mostly due to the quality of the kit itself rather than the work of the builder. I've only seen a handful of kits that I thought looked good. Mera based 308 kits are one.
I used to think the Fiero F40 kits were butt ugly. Then I saw a real F40 and realized it was just a butt ugly car. Love it for what it represents and it's engineering, but pretty it ain't. Even the real ones look like kit cars.
Nothing to add except the part about the panel gaps on the car. I have an AD355. The panels were all reproduced from real actual 355 parts and there is no way to eliminate the gap at the front of the door without changing hinge locations. Sorry I can't make it perfect. Perfection is not within my financial reach
[This message has been edited by dratts (edited 02-19-2015).]
I would love to have a Countach replica just because I like the look of the car. But I could never build one and the price to buy one already built is unaffordable to me. I've seen lots of nice ones that I would love to own.
Didn't think it belonged here, but since you want it this way, yes your most recent posts have been race baiting. Why come back and stir things up just like the other misfit forum? I thought you didn't like them, but it seems you emulate them?
This behavior is not a surprise, it's not the first time you've tried to abuse the ratings system and campaigned to ban people.
quote
Originally posted by troyboy:
I just don't get it. A senior member that has helped many on this forum expresses his opinion about a replica and you guys jump all over him.
Originally posted by jmbishop: This behavior is not a surprise, it's not the first time you've tried to abuse the ratings system and campaigned to ban people.
You know, All i can speak for is myself, but I've never been contacted for a campaign. I've never asked anyone to participate in a campaign & I've never heard of anyone bragging about a campaign.
Like I say, I can't speak for anyone else, but me thinks that your arrow leaning a little to the left is more of a result of your words & actions than of any campaign.
I think, you should looks at your arrow before you write a negative post & then check it again a few days after you post & see if you might be the cause of your own problem.
Thanks, I know you'll take this well without throwing out more hate.
Originally posted by Archie: Thanks, I know you'll take this well without throwing out more hate.
Archie
And your right, I don't plan on starting another war. RFT is bad enough, this nosense doesn't belong her which is why I kept it to a PM. I posted it, decided it didn't belong so I edited it and sent a PM. I really don't care where my ratings bar goes as long as I called it as it was.
I wasn't going to say anything about all the bullshit on this post, but I can't help myself. I've grown up with the forum since I was a freshman in high school... and let me say when I started using this site back 5 years ago, I never noticed any of this garbage.
I am amazed how many adults act like 12 year olds in real life...bickering and fighting like elementary school kids, this is just a car forum nothing else. I can't believe it actually. Some of the stuff people say to each other is UNREAL.
Didn't think it belonged here, but since you want it this way, yes your most recent posts have been race baiting. Why come back and stir things up just like the other misfit forum? I thought you didn't like them, but it seems you emulate them?
really? Please post links to the most recent threads that I race baited in. And in these threads was I the first one to address the topic of race?
quote
This behavior is not a surprise, it's not the first time you've tried to abuse the ratings system and campaigned to ban people.
Don't recall this either, please feel free to post links to these threads also. Also please post any info you have of me campaigning to have someone banned recently.
feel free to
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop: ....I called it as it was
really? Please post links to the most recent threads that I race baited in. And in these threads was I the first one to address the topic of race?
I too feel that you have recently played the racial bait game. You will attack my character in a post or two, but that does not negate my view of recent posts made by you.
Guys really ? Troy race bait !? I have seen a lot of the ot topics he has posted in and he is always responding to some racial onslaught already thrown down. A lot of the topics are just down right stupid and really have no place on a car forum. I rarely respond to those topics because it is usually the same tired half dozen or so guys popping off about black this and black that. The comments usually reach a point that demands a response so i can see his reasoning. Calling that race baiting is like blaming a person for retaliating after you spit in their face.
Jscott, you are a good man. For my part, I apologize for blind-siding you with my comment. I should have PM'ed you first.
Dobey, I'll be PM'ing Cliff to get his opinion whether he believes there is a place on this forum for threads designed specifically to single out other people's cars for the purpose of posting derogatory comments. If he believes, like you appear to, that it's fine, then I no longer have an interest participating in this forum. It's a principle that I cannot easily let go of. I am tired of fighting for what I believe to be common decency among members. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know when that line has been crossed no matter how you spin it.
Kinda, confused, one member only states he thinks the vehicle looks ugly, Yet you post
" The kit has lots of potential... I can see how it could be a really nice car, albeit without any roof to speak of. I don't know if it's the white paint that makes the panel gaps stick out like sore thumbs or whether the doors and hatches aren't fully closed, but the gaps and panel alignment left a lot to be desired in my opinion. I don't think I'd ever buy a convertible Fiero without lots of documentation on how it was done."
first, a little slash that it has no roof, then pointing out panel gaps, and questioning the build in general with the " I don't think................................" just because you preamble the post with "the kit has potential" doesn't hide the picking the darn thing apart.. one guy just says he doesn't like the look of it,, and you respond, yet your post picks the car apart, AT LENGTH...... you also seem to have no issue with everyone else that blasted the engine power claims, WHY!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the car, I think it looks great, someone put a lot of time into it, much sweat,love,time, into it.. so what if it isn't a 100 points show car..
Guys really ? Troy race bait !? I have seen a lot of the ot topics he has posted in and he is always responding to some racial onslaught already thrown down. A lot of the topics are just down right stupid and really have no place on a car forum. I rarely respond to those topics because it is usually the same tired half dozen or so guys popping off about black this and black that. The comments usually reach a point that demands a response so i can see his reasoning. Calling that race baiting is like blaming a person for retaliating after you spit in their face.
Exactly !!!!!!!!
Hard to believe, in this day & age, people can spout hate without thinking what it would be like to be on the other side.
I am a Fiero owner, but I seldom go into any of the Tech sections to post or read. Sometimes, but not very often.
I love O/T.
Face-to-face, I am rather a thin-skinned (sensitive) person, but I have developed a very thick-skinned attitude about O/T. Maybe it is wholly or partly because of the fact that I have never met even one of the regular O/T posters face-to-face, and given my long habit of never going anywhere outside of a day's drive there and back, have no likely prospect of doing so.
I think O/T is probably one of the most interesting free-ranging discussion forums anywhere on the 'Net. So I hope it doesn't go away. If Cliff decided to host it on a different web domain, I guess that would not be an immediate disappointment for me, although I wonder if that would soon or eventually lead to O/T's demise or decline in activity and interest of the discussions. Having become separated from the "mother ship"..?
If members are dragging their O/T animosities into the Tech and other sections, I hope that it would be resolved on an instance-by-instance basis, instead of by eliminating O/T.
Originally posted by Bloozberry: I'll be PM'ing Cliff to get his opinion whether he believes there is a place on this forum for threads designed specifically to single out other people's cars for the purpose of posting derogatory comments. If he believes, like you appear to, that it's fine, then I no longer have an interest participating in this forum.
Well, as promised, I asked Cliff Pennock to rule on the permissibility of threads that focus on a third party's car either for the sole purpose of ridiculing it, or its owner, or threads that degenerate into the same.
He has apparently reserved the right not to make such a decision since he stopped responding to my PM's. That doesn't sit well with me. My frustration with this website isn't limited to this issue. This is only the straw that broke the camel's back. The false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, and threatening nature of threads and posts permitted in Totally Off-Topic reflect one of two things or both: the administrator's unwillingness or indifference to enforce his own terms of use. The reasons don't matter much to me.
A forum where blatant racism, hatred, and abusive content aren't actively moderated is like a garden overtaken by bad weeds where the gardener prefers the look of any plant over just having good crops. So my only option is to uproot myself. I wish the many friends I've made on this site over the years good luck and happy motoring. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Do not PM me expecting a response.
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 02-23-2015).]
Originally posted by Bloozberry: The false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, and threatening nature of threads and posts permitted in Totally Off-Topic reflect one of two things or both: the administrator's unwillingness or indifference to enforce his own terms of use. The reasons don't matter much to me.
A forum where blatant racism, hatred, and abusive content aren't actively moderated is like a garden overtaken by bad weeds where the gardener prefers the look of any plant over just having good crops. So my only option is to uproot myself. I wish the many friends I've made on this site over the years good luck and happy motoring. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Do not PM me expecting a response.
It started off with jscott bringing up the issue of lack of activity in the Fiero-related part of the site, and suggesting that perhaps some of the other forums could be replaced or merged into others as a way to help increase perceived activity. I then brought up some other small issues that could help, including the issue of moderation. Of course, speaking about that is blasphemy here, as you and a few others immediately pointed out, suggesting that if I don't like the way the site is run, I should instead just go create my own forum and run it the way I like. I guess I should say good luck with running your own forum then, since these are the exact reasons it was suggested one should create their own forum if they don't like the way this one is run.
Well, as promised, I asked Cliff Pennock to rule on the permissibility of threads that focus on a third party's car either for the sole purpose of ridiculing it, or its owner, or threads that degenerate into the same.
He has apparently reserved the right not to make such a decision since he stopped responding to my PM's. That doesn't sit well with me. My frustration with this website isn't limited to this issue. This is only the straw that broke the camel's back. The false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, and threatening nature of threads and posts permitted in Totally Off-Topic reflect one of two things or both: the administrator's unwillingness or indifference to enforce his own terms of use. The reasons don't matter much to me.
A forum where blatant racism, hatred, and abusive content aren't actively moderated is like a garden overtaken by bad weeds where the gardener prefers the look of any plant over just having good crops. So my only option is to uproot myself. I wish the many friends I've made on this site over the years good luck and happy motoring. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Do not PM me expecting a response.
If you only knew what "totally O/T "means you'd not be getting your panties in a bunch.. I also noticed you have nothing to say about YOUR picking on the vehicle in this thread that you are all bent about.. Cliff didn't p.m. you and bow at your feet, so you're going to pack up.. WHO YOU CALLING WEEDS AGAIN.. you sound like a child that when he doesn't get their way runs off with the ball..
You want to know why the forum has slowed.. because many of the people into the cars have moved on.. others get sick of the "I've been here since, so don't question me, " of some members.. The forum is for people that own/like or might one day own a Fiero.. or did at one time,, the O/T part is for conversing on stuff not Fiero.. those that don't like a thread or the O/T as a whole.. don't have to click ,and go over there if they don't want to.. same thing with a thread over there if you don't like it's subject or comments on it, you can CHOOSE not to read it, no one has a gun to your head.. Even if I don't agree with someone I'd not wish them to leave.. but that is your choice, may you live long and prosper no matter what your choice is..
------------------ Old cars don't leak. That's horsepower sweat!
So, the "click" has spoken? Several of you fine folks really stick together. Funny how a few kiddos on a car forum get so attached to each other that they cannot see anything but "We are right". Well, Troy had no issue posting in a racial thread, and neither did I. If racism is directed at me, I will easily blow back.
Go find where I have been racist. I will wait right here patiently...
Toughen up ladies. Your skirt is getting in the way. I can see why members leave. A lot of the threads where they do, your "click" is involved. This is NOT your forum.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 02-23-2015).]
If you only knew what "totally O/T "means you'd not be getting your panties in a bunch.. I also noticed you have nothing to say about YOUR picking on the vehicle in this thread that you are all bent about.. Cliff didn't p.m. you and bow at your feet, so you're going to pack up.. WHO YOU CALLING WEEDS AGAIN.. you sound like a child that when he doesn't get their way runs off with the ball..
You want to know why the forum has slowed.. because many of the people into the cars have moved on.. others get sick of the "I've been here since, so don't question me, " of some members.. The forum is for people that own/like or might one day own a Fiero.. or did at one time,, the O/T part is for conversing on stuff not Fiero.. those that don't like a thread or the O/T as a whole.. don't have to click ,and go over there if they don't want to.. same thing with a thread over there if you don't like it's subject or comments on it, you can CHOOSE not to read it, no one has a gun to your head.. Even if I don't agree with someone I'd not wish them to leave.. but that is your choice, may you live long and prosper no matter what your choice is..
I'm sure it's dicks like you is one of the reasons for him leaving.
Really sorry to hear that blooze will be leaving. I always had much admiration for the meticulousness of his builds even though some of it went way over my head. Especially the suspension geometry. I could never match his skills but I always enjoyed seeing what he accomplished. I agree with him completely about the rude over the top bashing of other peoples cars. If anyone ever had a position to criticize others work it was him because few could measure up to his work but I don't recall him ever getting mean about some ones work because it didn't measure up to his standards. In fact he was complimentary once about my car which is in no way near the class of his work. I can't help but feel the over the top criticism is a sign of an inferiority complex. Constructive criticism is a welcome thing. Name calling whether it's directed at a person or a car is just uncalled for.
Really sorry to hear that blooze will be leaving. I always had much admiration for the meticulousness of his builds even though some of it went way over my head. Especially the suspension geometry. I could never match his skills but I always enjoyed seeing what he accomplished. I agree with him completely about the rude over the top bashing of other peoples cars. If anyone ever had a position to criticize others work it was him because few could measure up to his work but I don't recall him ever getting mean about some ones work because it didn't measure up to his standards. In fact he was complimentary once about my car which is in no way near the class of his work. I can't help but feel the over the top criticism is a sign of an inferiority complex. Constructive criticism is a welcome thing. Name calling whether it's directed at a person or a car is just uncalled for.
He was one of the few, and I mean VERY FEW good ones left.
... but yeah, I much prefer it when everyone here gets along. 
You will attack my character in a post or two, but that does not negate my view of recent posts made by you.
