Tough call. If I keep posting here, I am a "troll". If I walk away from this now, you guys "scared me off".
You misunderstand, we're not trying to scare you, we are trying to tell you how it's gonna be. If you're going to terrorize the Forum with the kind of junk we've been seeing more & more of then we're gonna see that you're out of here. If you straighten out and start acting like a PFF member who really wants to be here, you're red bar will slowly start to turn green. But before we let you turn the forum into a trashcan we will escort you to the door.
The thing that best describes how I feel about it is ...... We're mad as heck & we're not gonna take it anymore. What happened to Songman in this thread was the last straw. Those guys started something & we're gonna finish it.
You can be part of the solution or you can be part of the problem, that's up to you.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-08-2004).]
Donk...you said if you disagree with someone why should you have to watch what you say to express yourself....not really calling you out here but just using this statement as an example, but the reality is we all have to watch what we say almost everywhere. Do you walk into a church and say "How the hell is it hangin Padre" during services. When a cop pulls you over do you say "why the hell you buggin' me pig? Dunkin donuts closed?" When your mom calls do you say "Yo Bi**h, wassup?". Maybe you do, but I doubt it, because anyone who is an adult recognizes that all actions have consequences. The consequence of acting like a complete tool in this forum is getting a negative rating. You do it too often and you go away. I had commenrted in a o/t thread awhilke back and another member respoinded . His opinion differed from mine and he was a little rude, not terribly so, but a little. I pm 'ed him and said that I thought he had some valid points and he presented them well, but that I refused to comment on them or debate them if he insisted on being abusive. He pm'ed back that he did not intend to be and we had a great dialogue about the current state of the american legal system. the guy is actually well versed in the law, but inreading some of his public posts I had ignored his intellect because of his attitude. I still think this guy goes a bit overboard on occasion, but since that time he has always treated me with respect andf I have never thought about giving him a neg for his opinions, but I almost did due to the way hepresented them...
I'm with Tytehead on this. (I'm not calling Donk out either, just responding to the points Tytehead made). How you present opinions can in many ways be just as important as how you present them. That's the case whether it's an internet forum or just everyday real life.
That being said, part of the problem is that this isn't "real life". A lot of communication consists of tone, facial expressions, and body language. We don't have that here, it's just text (not meant as a complaint, it's just a reality of the internet). Yeah, we've got the smilies, but it's really hard at times to convey attitude with just words. A little more thought needs to be put into a post, compared to what you might say when hanging out with friends. Because what may seem funny in your head or in person might not come out that way on the screen. And most of the people here will never meet face to face; or if they do, they see each other only occasionally. So most (or in some cases all) of the impressions we get about each other comes from what we post.
[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 10-08-2004).]
The great thing about the rating system is that it gives people plenty of chances to clean up their act. The gauge gives you a clear representation of how your words sit with others on the forum.
Not ALWAYS TRUE... I had a rating bar within 24-36 HOURS of this getting this username... My last name.. "Smoooooth GT" was NEVER BANNED as ALOT of members here believe. Cliff knows! I got into a bad position (YES, I did it myself and only blamming myself for--But, I would do it again!) and was unable to ship parts like I said... there for getting nagatives from people not even involved at all. Then, when I got back, and tried to log on I could'nt because my puter had crashed and I did'nt have my password memorised or wrote down anywhere... I emailed Cliff then to get my password and could'nt because I could'nt get into the email I registered under because I stopped using it and my account got closed... So, I could'nt retrieve my password that he emailed to me... So, Then came my current username and like I said at the start.. I had another ratings bar withiin 24-36 Hr.s!! and it was RED for awhile and I have taken care of business and gotten my ratings back atleast to a positive side(gasp!)... But, I have gotten some of my negatives for also speaking my mind as well.
I just wanted to show that this is not always the case Songman...
Mstangsbware got in trouble by bashing Skitimes car and calling some forum members "rich pricks". I guess he offended a few people by doing that. I have him as a neutral for now. Maybe others can reconsider their negative votes against him, at least change them to a neutral as he seems to be behaving as of late.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 10-08-2004).]
I understand what your trying to say but again, If i feel a certain way regarding what someone has said and I want to respond, why should I have to change the way I see things or how I express myself? Just for clarity, say my ratings were dipping into the red...pretend here people....and i want to reply to a thread that I feel has improper or misguided information but since my ratings are mainly negative (again, hypothetical) I should "watch" what i say...because anything I say is under the microscope for scrutiny. I dont agree. I shouldnt be bound by others opinion of me and be afraid to post how i feel.
I wrote this calmy and objectively. I honestly dont want to get banned because Cliff has made it clear here...and to me privately that once your banned you cant come back....and that would suck cause me and my little Indy need somewhere to play.
This has already been answered by many since you asked, but since you posted it directly to me I will answer again... No one is asking you to change your opinion on an issue. Just don't be a jack@$$ when putting that opinion out. Most people will discount anything you have to say if you start out by being a jerk. Name calling and abusive behaviour is not a normally acceptable social behaviour. Why should it be accepted here? Tyteheads answer was right on... Would you say that to your, mom? If you would, you have bigger issues than we can address here. This is a very general statement.. But it seems that the current 'young generation' thinks that name calling and disprectful behaviour somehow makes them cool. All it does is make them annoying.
Bottom line is, if you want to be a respected part of this forum, be respectful to other members. It comes straight from the Bible (and I realize that is enough reason for some of you not to do it), "If you want a friend, show yourself friendly". By all means, hang onto your opinions but even when disagreeing with someone, still show them respect and realize that they have the right to feel how they do too.... And that means without you and your buddies being disrespectful and calling them names.
BTW- This is the best post I have ever seen you make on the forum... Thank you for making a calm, respectful post.
Mstangsbware got in trouble by bashing Skitimes car and calling some forum members "rich pricks". I guess he offended a few people by doing that. I have him as a neutral for now. Maybe others can reconsider their negative votes against him, at least change them to a neutral as he seems to be behaving as of late.
No... He got in trouble for calling all of us on the West Coast 'rich pricks' . He did that because we didn't agree with his bashing of WCF. I don't think anyone cares if he likes skitime's car or not.. Or even WCF for that matter... But name calling and abusive behaviour is what gets people negatives, plain and simple. No amount of saying otherwise is going to change it.
I also have him as a neutral because of better behaviour lately.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 10-08-2004).]
You're a smart guy, Steve. You haven't figured out yet about double standards, arguing with popular members, etc?
Yeah I guess. I would love to see my ratings bar get back up more on the green side where it belongs. I think that a quite a few that rated me a neg for some reason or another many months ago have since moved on or maybe don't visit much now. I would hope that some would take the time to relook now at reconsidering their (-) vote on me? Anyway, thanks Fierobear, I do appreciate the support
Originally posted by Fiero5: Anyway, thanks Fierobear, I do appreciate the support
I don't really like to see a contributing member getting relentlessly picked on. Whether one likes the green car and Tarrah's or not, they are Fieros and I like the way you are so involved with your kids. That's the sign of a good father.
Fiero5 - after seeing pics of you working on the cars with your kids, I definitely gave you a '+'.
I hate to admit that you had a '-' from me, and I can't even remember why, so your '+' from me is definitely overdue.
You seem to be a really great Dad - the world needs more of those.
Thanks LZeitgeist. I would actually like to know what I did to earn that neg at some point as well, so I can hopefully try and not repeat it, whether if by accident or not. This thread actually seemed to be going in a semi good direction lately so I am kind of surprised to now find it down here
Originally posted by USFiero: Pennocks gotten boring? Life a little dull? Can't find a hornet's nest to poke? Antagonize one of these guys by provoking them in a post! It's easy and fun, and best of all pain free! I can see the new 'red bar battalion' slogan: Mess with me and watch the meter flash for all of us!!!
Hummm yes.... Antagonize... Lets examine the definition of that word.
an·tag·o·nize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-tg-nz) tr.v. an·tag·o·nized, an·tag·o·niz·ing, an·tag·o·niz·es 1. To incur the dislike of; provoke hostility or enmity in: antagonized her officemates with her rude behavior. 2. counteract.
---------------------------- en·mi·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nm-t) n. pl. en·mi·ties 1. Deep-seated, often mutual hatred.
So you want to be an antagonist eh?? OK cool.
The way I see it Bumble Bees have a right to live, they produce honey and polinate flowers and trees. Bees also sting, they protect themselves and their hive.
I'm not the kind of person to swing a stick at a bee hive and then complain when I get the crap stung out of me. It's not the bees fault I was stupid. I don't like them stinging me so I don't provoke them. When I do on rare occasions get stung I don't immidiatly get angry and want to eliminate bees from the planet.
So what is 84Bill getting at?
RESPECT
If you antagonize a bee that is going about it's business, don't get all surprised and bent out of shape when you get stung. If you expect me to believe you were an innocent victim of a random plot by rogue bees to sting humanity "for no apparent reason" when in reality you took a poke at it.... Well... cry to mommy not the forum because I don't want to hear it.
If you have one ounce of respect for the guys on this stupid hit list you will see they are ordinary guy just like most people with the acception they are not afraid to sting the crap out of people who screw with them. So they don't like to be messed with...Big deal.. I can say the same for their victims.. God knows how much they cry foul. Poor things... whacked a bee hive and got stung all to hell and back.
I have a better idea.. dont **** with the BEES!
[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 10-08-2004).]
Originally posted by Fiero5: Thanks LZeitgeist. I would actually like to know what I did to earn that neg at some point as well, so I can hopefully try and not repeat it, whether if by accident or not.
The only thing I can figure is that I must have rated the wrong person (clicked on the post above or below the one I was intending to rate) in a thread or something - I was honestly surprised to see a '-' come up when I went to change you from 'neutral' to '+'.
I'm pissed. At first I was all excited because I was first on the list, but now that I realized it was in alphabetical order my excitement has been short lived.
For the life of me, I'll never understand why people defend the "red bar brigade" by saying "they just tell it like it is." If someone disagrees with me, that's cool. If they think I'm wrong, that's cool, too. But you don't have to be a jerk about it. I can disagree with someone and have a civil discussion with them, but too many people with low ratings think their idea of "telling like it is" is saying "you're ghey" or "you suck" or some other juvenille retort
We have a phrase for this in the military. It goes "WAAH! my p*ssy hurts!" Get over it. When people are rude to you in public do you whine about it too? You wouldn't last three seconds in the military. People that are higher ranking act like jerk offs to lower ranking people because THEY CAN. You learn to live with it and don't complain because people are rude in this world. Period.
I've never used the arguments you mention but I am 100% sure I have received a ton of negative ratings for various opiniated posts along the years I have been here. The NASA incident was a huge one when my red bar exploded, but if you read my post I had factual information to back up everything and later was proven right by many, many outside investigations over the incident. Was I the nicest guy in explaining my opinion? Probably not, but like I said, get over it, even if your p*ssy hurts.
You remind me of those whiney people you see on TV saying "My first amendment rights have been violated because I am 300 lbs and my employer won't accomodate my fat ass with personal wheel chair" or something like that.
[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 10-08-2004).]
I'm pissed. At first I was all excited because I was first on the list, but now that I realized it was in alphabetical order my excitement has been short lived.
Black88GT I have you as a positive, I don't remember you doing anything that would deserve a negative. I don't even remember the thread you are talking about, so it couldn't have been that big of a deal. I really think that people need to reconsider their ratings and keep a record of why they rate someone negative. Maybe a few deserving members could be rescued from the brink and those less deserving can finally make it over the edge.
We have a phrase for this in the military. It goes "WAAH! my p*ssy hurts!" Get over it. When people are rude to you in public do you whine about it too? You wouldn't last three seconds in the military.
I'll give you a bit of a wake up call here. This isn't the military. And people in public are rarely as rude as some here on the forum. If someone said the things to my face that some people say on the forum, the Police would be filling out the report when it's all done. The thing is, most people wouldn't act in public like the fool they present themselves as here on the internet.
This is a public forum, but it's Cliff's public forum. Just as the proprietor of an establishment has the right to ask you to leave if you're abusive to his or her patrons; Cliff have the right to do the same. And Cliff has implemented the voting system so we can assist in that and be somewhat self moderating. A drunk sitting in the corner of a restaurant shouting obscenities is not just expressing his opinion or telling it like it is. He is a public nuissance and will be dealt with. The same goes for those who make a nuissance of themselves here.
quote
Originally posted by Black88GT: You remind me of those whiney people you see on TV saying "My first amendment rights have been violated because I am 300 lbs and my employer won't accomodate my fat ass with personal wheel chair" or something like that.
That's funny, because those types of people are annoying. I believe people have to accept responsibility for their actions. That fat ass has no one but himself to blame for his obesity due to his eating and exercise habits. You have no one but yourself to blame for your ratings due to your posting habits.
If that bothers you, take some of your own military advice and suck it up.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-08-2004).]
Black88GT I have you as a positive, I don't remember you doing anything that would deserve a negative. I don't even remember the thread you are talking about, so it couldn't have been that big of a deal. I really think that people need to reconsider their ratings and keep a record of why they rate someone negative. Maybe a few deserving members could be rescued from the brink and those less deserving can finally make it over the edge.
Yea the thread was like 2 years ago but I am sure I still have ratings from it. I agree though that people should review their ratings OR they should expire after a year or something. How many ratings are still floating around from people who don't even post here anymore? And I think that this would solve problems as well because once someone has a red bar they are like "Well screw it, it's red so I might as well act however I want". Maybe if they expired it would be atleast a glimmer of hope.
[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 10-09-2004).]
In my opinion the only people who asked for ratings in this thread were the ones who came in here acting like jerks, just asking for a negative.
I have a serious question.. .Do you always have to act like an ass? Is it to try to appear cool or what? If so, it is not working. Some people in this thread seem to realize that they can't just continue to cause trouble without the risk of being banned. Apparently you are not one of those people...
There are no 'senior members' here. There are only members who are polite and respect other members and those who don't. The ones who don't say the ratings system is a popularity contest to try to put the blame for their actions on someone else.
I agree though that people should review their ratings OR they should expire after a year or something. How many ratings are still floating around from people who don't even post here anymore? And I think that this would solve problems as well because once someone has a red bar they are like "Well screw it, it's red so I might as well act however I want". Maybe if they expired it would be atleast a glimmer of hope.
Resetting the ratings after a set time isn't a bad idea. Chances are after a year, no one would remember what the ratings were for anyway.
How about positive ratings? Should those reset as well?
I also think when someone is banned, all of the ratings they gave out should be erased, but that may already be the case.
I would love to see my ratings bar get back up more on the green side where it belongs. I think that a quite a few that rated me a neg for some reason or another many months ago have since moved on or maybe don't visit much now. I would hope that some would take the time to relook now at reconsidering their (-) vote on me?
Your rating bar reflects how you've been acting lately. You want to lie on the forum, you pay the price. You kept it up and didn't want to understand that you offend people when you lie, and you were rated accordingly. Don't cry about your rating bar.....it's your own fault.
I don't really like to see a contributing member getting relentlessly picked on. Whether one likes the green car and Tarrah's or not, they are Fieros and I like the way you are so involved with your kids. That's the sign of a good father.
We certainly don't want to lose contributing members, but when the contributing member brings forth a lot of bad information, there is a problem. When that info is pointed out to that member, he needs to understand that there is a problem and accept it.....especially when presented with his own words and the explaination as to why he's giving out wrong info.
Yes, he gets major points for spending time with his kids, and that's never been an issue. He has been taken to task for his lying to the forum, though, and that's why he was rated the way he has been.