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how to make a stock 4 cyl fiero fast by ionstorm666
Started on: 01-14-2004 06:44 PM
Replies: 190 (9157 views)
Last post by: Jeremiah on 05-07-2004 09:45 AM
befarrer
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Report this Post01-20-2004 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for befarrerClick Here to Email befarrerSend a Private Message to befarrerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have seen Dasher's car, and it does look like a stock 2.5L. I have never ridden in it, but I know he is not lying. The car sounds way different now too. Dasher posted his dyno results awhile ago, but no picture. I think it was 141HP @3300RPM and 150Torque wasnt it?

I am planning on building up a duke in the future. Mainly because I want to keep factory look, but with slightly better performance. All I was planning on doing is upgrading the cam, using flat top pistons, and adding a header. 90% of my driving is highway, and my 2.5L Auto has plenty of passing power. If I add a V6, all it will do is decrease my gas mileage, no difference will be noticed at 100KM/h because all the engine is doing is keeping the car at a constant speed. I do want to put a V8 in my 86 someday, just for looks and sound.

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USFiero
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Report this Post01-20-2004 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for USFieroSend a Private Message to USFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Soooo funny.... Not all kennedys are politicians just cause they are born into the family that way. No birth announcement has ever said ' Joe Smoe, mecahnic and automotive genius was born yesterday to Mr and Mrs Shmoe '. What car in the 70's had 400 hp? twin turbos on a Duke? There is nothing I could contribute to this thread that could be funnier except to bump it! This is all a joke? You are all kidding right? Thanks for going to all the trouble to make me laugh today!

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 01-20-2004).]

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quote
Originally posted by 88Fiero2M4:
Ya So yu Made your 4 Cylinder better by adding 4 cylinders. YA I bet you pass everything but a gas station.

I've seen 4.9L Fieros that get 30 mpg.. show me a 200 horsepower Duke that does that.
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Report this Post01-20-2004 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for psychic_mechanicClick Here to Email psychic_mechanicSend a Private Message to psychic_mechanicEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you welded two mid 70's Trans Ams together, you'd have close to 400 hp. Eight wheels, but 400 hp.

------------------
-Vinny

87 Fiero GT 202k miles on the 2.8, just waiting to have an excuse for a swap
94 Infiniti Q45t (wife's car: 278 hp, RWD & LSD , leather)

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USFiero
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Report this Post01-20-2004 03:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for USFieroSend a Private Message to USFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just realised we let some nimrod hijack this thread without getting to important stuff. Mr portoff's claims have been challenged before and he has never been able to prove any of his claims, which are all the products of 'talking to' other people. http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/035319.html You'll find some of Dashers' buildup data there and here http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/032319.html too. Things I'd like to know and have someone theorize on... I had heard the 300 cfm throttle body Holley made as an upgrade on the Fiero was inspired by the development on the ACTUAL Indy pace car (not the production ones) So i guess there would actually be some potential (with an intake manifold to help) there? I seem to recall the potential of the Duke was really hurt by the cheap crankshaft becoming unstable above 5000 RPM but that mercruiser cranks are good for more. Were the piston rods also cheap (hence the fires of early versions?) Can I use the same journals with ARP bolts or will they need reenforcement? Can i use roller rockers? What about the thread that asserted the duke is made of smallblock chevy V8 parts (an economy of manufacturing thing on GM's part?) so can i use rods, journals/bearings/pistons etc. etc etc...? see: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/039386.html maybe a lot of modest performance parts would strengthen the internals? Bore or no bore? I looked for the thread 'big bad duke buildup' but the search feature won't reference 'bad' <EDIT> FOUND IT: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/023474.html . I did find these: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/037028.html Ira's Duke site: http://ironduke7.tripod.com/IronDuke.htm and a Duke owner's group: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/akxsironduketech4garage/

Oh, and i drive a 95 Thunderbird V8. They are all autos. And there is NO WAY to get that to beat a V8 Mustang with just a chip, filter, exhaust and underdrive pulleys...hahahaha!!! It's a 4.6 sohc dude!

[This message has been edited by USFiero (edited 01-20-2004).]

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88_Fiero_2M4
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Report this Post01-20-2004 04:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88_Fiero_2M4Click Here to Email 88_Fiero_2M4Send a Private Message to 88_Fiero_2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I havent been able to prove my clames as of yet cause I durring the winter months make less then min Wages. I dont have the cash right now, When I do I will try to prove what I claim. So far I have been just trying to keep my 88 running as it is throwing a 13 and a 33 so its not running the greatest right now. You dont just take a engine that is running like crap and just throw parts into it.... that will solve nothing but make rough running worse. And being that I am not making much now I dont have the spare cash to do any modifications. Second I dont have the engine yet, I have had plans to buy a Duke with only 6000 miles on it wich I have found one. I just dont have the cash and when I get close to having enuf something else goes wrong.

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Don Pottorff
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Report this Post01-20-2004 05:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TugboatSend a Private Message to TugboatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Awwwwww.....
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Report this Post01-20-2004 06:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dasherClick Here to Email dasherSend a Private Message to dasherEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
WOW A FLAME WAR OVER THE DUKE. i never thaught i would ever be in the middle of one. well whatever. what i dont understand is i was not bragging or saying that what i did was the only or best why to go about getting power out of a 4 cyl. my reason for posting or even being a part of the PFF is to give and recive infomation. i have from day one told everyone everything i know about what has been done to my little duke. when i built the engine i was hoping for 180hp thinking that with the higher compression and better air flow i could pull so very big hp numbers. i found that i make good power but nothing to get excited about. when i can scan the dyno slips i will i just need to drive across the city to do it, so relax the will be posted soon enuff. as for the photoshop blast form slammedfiero, what is that all about? whats your beef? i have done nothing to merit that kinda blast. honestly what the F*<k.

------------------

86 coupe 3.0L P&P shaved, 4 cyl 5 speed
full Body kit ASA Rims
hood and light mods

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88_Fiero_2M4
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Report this Post01-20-2004 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88_Fiero_2M4Click Here to Email 88_Fiero_2M4Send a Private Message to 88_Fiero_2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dasher:

slam you dont know **** so screw off. do cut what you don't know and why is there anything wrong with the photo shop it's my sig. what is your beef i was on your side? i have the dyno slip i just need to get them scan them. not photoshopped and fyi i dont have a single blot on. i get my power the hard N/A. please man chill

I really think its just he feels threatened that someone at least wants to make some hp with a duke. I dont understand why people here have to attack people who want to stick with the duke. Granted I may have over estimated what Hp it may make.... but I havent yet seen proof that it wont make that much hp. I base my figures on what kind of Hp increase a V8 will make with those mods then I cut it in half as in it being a 4 cylinder. I say So what if I am wrong..... At least I am willing to try.

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Slammed Fiero
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Report this Post01-20-2004 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:


I really think its just he feels threatened that someone at least wants to make some hp with a duke. I dont understand why people here have to attack people who want to stick with the duke. Granted I may have over estimated what Hp it may make.... but I havent yet seen proof that it wont make that much hp. I base my figures on what kind of Hp increase a V8 will make with those mods then I cut it in half as in it being a 4 cylinder. I say So what if I am wrong..... At least I am willing to try.

You base your HP claims on what the modifications will do on a different motor. Not a very scientific manner (or accurate) way of gathering data. Im just tired of people """CLAIMING"" hp #'s with nothing to back it up with.. Also a few things stand out that shoot your theroies to hell.

# 1.. a well built 3.4 made 135 hp @ the wheels , with a 15% driveline loss that is just shy of 160hp @ the flywheel.
# 2 Shaun Hammits dyno proven (I will post slips tomorrow) 2.8 with a 75 SHOT OF NITROUS made just over 200hp @ the flywheel. So BS-ing and saying taking off a belt here , acam there and getting rid of the cat will yield 200hp is just that...a load of Bull.

Threatened... Don't know sh1t..ahh ok...

I just don't shoot off inaccurate claims with no real evidence to back it up. You don't even have 1/4 mile #'s to crudley guesstimate from....you just guess from what other engines have done and what your uncle larry has told you.

JM


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dasher
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Report this Post01-20-2004 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dasherClick Here to Email dasherSend a Private Message to dasherEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
then why did you bring me in to this flame war?
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Report this Post01-21-2004 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 88_Fiero_2M4Click Here to Email 88_Fiero_2M4Send a Private Message to 88_Fiero_2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed Fiero:


You base your HP claims on what the modifications will do on a different motor. Not a very scientific manner (or accurate) way of gathering data. Im just tired of people """CLAIMING"" hp #'s with nothing to back it up with.. Also a few things stand out that shoot your theroies to hell.

# 1.. a well built 3.4 made 135 hp @ the wheels , with a 15% driveline loss that is just shy of 160hp @ the flywheel.
# 2 Shaun Hammits dyno proven (I will post slips tomorrow) 2.8 with a 75 SHOT OF NITROUS made just over 200hp @ the flywheel. So BS-ing and saying taking off a belt here , acam there and getting rid of the cat will yield 200hp is just that...a load of Bull.

Threatened... Don't know sh1t..ahh ok...

I just don't shoot off inaccurate claims with no real evidence to back it up. You don't even have 1/4 mile #'s to crudley guesstimate from....you just guess from what other engines have done and what your uncle larry has told you.

JM

For one Slammed I never asked you. I really dont see how you can have such a positive rating when you slam everyone for anything. I am starting to think by your attitude and name that you dont really like the Fiero anyway. My Guess is you dont even own one. So to you making HP with any engine in one may threaten you.
I have a suggestion. Since all You can do is insult everyone, you sould find a differant hobby. I really dont care about your opinoins anymore since all you have to say seems to prove your IQ isnt very high, Must be cause all the foul language in your posts.
You must have some kind of complex going on here that makes you attack everyone for any Ideas that they have. My orignal post wasnt even directed at you. The guy who started this post asked for a way to get more power out of the duke. I am willing to bet that even if my figures are way off that at least there will be some horse power gains by what I have suggested. I would be very willing to bet that With the modifications except the belt due to the 88 only has one belt, that there would be a HP gain. But according to you there wouldnt be much of a gain. So what Maby all I would be happy with would be just to get it above 100 HP at the wheels. All I really want to see out of the Duke is to be able to accelerate with normal traffic without having to push the Peddle all the way to the floor. Like durring Thanks giving where I had a loaded Bull Rack nearly out accelerate me. I was realy upset to see a simi able to accelerate just as fast as my Fiero. To me any way to get a Cheap HP gain would be worth it. I personaly am not trying to make my duke run with a 2.8, All I want is just to have it accelerate alittle faster.

------------------
Don Pottorff
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Oreif
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Report this Post01-21-2004 09:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:


To me any way to get a Cheap HP gain would be worth it. I personaly am not trying to make my duke run with a 2.8, All I want is just to have it accelerate alittle faster.

The problem isn't that you want more horsepower, It was the fact that you "claimed" (with advice from a friend and your cousin) That a cam and bolt-ons will get you to 200hp. Which is not possible. Then you got defensive when your claim was called on.

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Slammed Fiero
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Report this Post01-21-2004 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
here is the car I don't have..

www.geocities.com/morley_m/northstar.htm

Im not intimidated by a duke with 200hp as you can see... I simply don't like newbies such as the person who started the thread to be mislead into believing that the duke can create 200hp... This is the problem with the forum and forums in general. Someone comes on and asks a question..then there is always someone who posts page after page of BS about performance or how they make 10000hp..yet have no dyno slips to prove it.. they blah blah blah on ...if you call them on their claims..they say they don't have anything to prove... Well making outrageous claims such as a duke can make 200hp requires some proof to be taken serious by anyone with a drop of knowledge about performance

Im done arguing... Oh //by the way..My low ass IQ managed to get me a University Degree in automotive marketing. I wasn't born with a wrench in my hand , but I would bet a Northstar 5spd with a direct port nitrous setup is a wee bit harder to build then taking the cat and AC belt of of a 2.5.

Here's the slip for a 2.8 with a cold air setup and a crane ignition. this is on a 50 shot. The car made 155hp @ the wheels... thats 178 flywheel hp.. with a 75 shot it made 212 Flywheelhp... so your telling me little weiner ass mods is going to net 200hp out of a motor with 2 less cylinders?? and no nitrous??? (this car is an automatic)

Have a nice day Mr. Performance...

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need help plz
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Report this Post01-21-2004 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for need help plzClick Here to Email need help plzSend a Private Message to need help plzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the duke was never meant to be and never will be a performance engine. it was built as a commuter...
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Slammed Fiero
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Report this Post01-21-2004 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I really dont care about your opinoins anymore since all you have to say seems to prove your IQ isnt very high, Must be cause all the foul language in your posts.

you question my IQ , and use the word " cause" in the same sentence ..did you mean because? FYI if your going to questions someones intelligence and infer that yours is superior, atleast use proper english...

I also can't belive you threatened someone on the internet (Shaun) ... you don't look like a badass..you look fat.


JM

[This message has been edited by Slammed Fiero (edited 01-21-2004).]

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GT86
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Report this Post01-21-2004 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GT86Click Here to Email GT86Send a Private Message to GT86Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I gotta agree with Slammed on this. Making HP claims without anything to back them up is a waste of time and bandwidth.

Stuff like "it sounds faster", or "well, it feels faster" don't mean anything. Anyone posting about their HP needs to post dyno sheets or don't bother making claims.

It's what I call the "Loch Ness Monster Syndrome". People claim to have seen it, or know someone who has, there are some blurry pictures that could be anything, and some videos of waves on a lake. But not a shred of definitive proof. Same kinda thing here...

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 01-21-2004).]

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post01-21-2004 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Cliff, do you happen to have any of those padlocks lying around???
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Report this Post01-21-2004 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88_Fiero_2M4Click Here to Email 88_Fiero_2M4Send a Private Message to 88_Fiero_2M4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed Fiero:


you question my IQ , and use the word " cause" in the same sentence ..did you mean because? FYI if your going to questions someones intelligence and infer that yours is superior, atleast use proper english...

I also can't belive you threatened someone on the internet (Shaun) ... you don't look like a badass..you look fat.


JM


I wish you would not defile my Pictures I post. Do it again and you will find yourself in a Court with a Copyright Lawsuit. I took the picture and didnt give you premission to use it.

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Report this Post01-21-2004 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stimpyClick Here to Email stimpySend a Private Message to stimpyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I wish you would not defile my Pictures I post. Do it again and you will find yourself in a Court with a Copyright Lawsuit. I took the picture and didnt give you premission to use it.

Bwah-hahahahahaha! Oh stop, you're killing me!

Seriously, you are just way to sensitive, man. You need to go to www.fiero.com and join the play group over there. You're just not ready to roll with the big dogs.

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Report this Post01-21-2004 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
SO HAVE WE FIGURED IT OUT YET? Sorry if I offend anybody, but I got sick of wading through the BS back on page two. Do we know yet what modifications can be made to the duke to make more power? What parts to use? Where to get these parts? How much they cost? or what potential gains can be made by adding specific parts?
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Report this Post01-21-2004 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ditchSend a Private Message to ditchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I wish you would not defile my Pictures I post. Do it again and you will find yourself in a Court with a Copyright Lawsuit. I took the picture and didnt give you premission to use it.


I've been following this thing from the beginning....it's just too hilarious.

Copyright lawsuit? What are you smokin?

Guess I'll repeat what everyone is getting at...read this VERY slowly....BACK UP YOUR CLAIM OR SHUT THE HELL UP. It's as simple as that.

If I came on here and told everyone I got 300 HP out of one of my 2.8's with a few mods, I'd have people requesting proof to no end. If I didn't have one shed of proof (as you have shown), that would make me one thing....totally full of **** .

talk is cheap

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Slammed Fiero
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Report this Post01-21-2004 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Slammed FieroSend a Private Message to Slammed FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I wish you would not defile my Pictures I post. Do it again and you will find yourself in a Court with a Copyright Lawsuit. I took the picture and didnt give you premission to use it.

Dude your just

Sue me fatass sue me!!!!

I didn't know you could copywrite fat and ugly.. I guess you cornered the market!!

JM

[This message has been edited by Slammed Fiero (edited 01-21-2004).]

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chester
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Report this Post01-22-2004 07:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for chesterClick Here to Email chesterSend a Private Message to chesterEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I wish you would not defile my Pictures I post. Do it again and you will find yourself in a Court with a Copyright Lawsuit. I took the picture and didnt give you premission to use it.


Wow, this is getting funny, you and yello86se should get along just fine. Oh, and I missed the copyright logo... What a joke.

Rob D.

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The Dirty Rat
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383 Stroker MPFI with N2O
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11" Brakes
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Updated Jan 21 '04 www.dirtyratracing.org

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befarrer
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Report this Post01-22-2004 01:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for befarrerClick Here to Email befarrerSend a Private Message to befarrerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

SO HAVE WE FIGURED IT OUT YET? Sorry if I offend anybody, but I got sick of wading through the BS back on page two. Do we know yet what modifications can be made to the duke to make more power? What parts to use? Where to get these parts? How much they cost? or what potential gains can be made by adding specific parts?

From what information I have gathered, I would think that the main 2 items that brings the dukes power down is the poor head flow and design, and a weak crank that cant rev too high.

A stock duke makes 92HP at the crank, I did some 1/4 mile runs last fall with my 84 2M4 Auto, and my best time was 18.63 @70.1MPH, my best 60" was 2.5, not great, but if I were at sea level and perfect conditions, that would give me 89RWHP, which is around 100crankHP. That day was about 15C and had a 10-15MPH headwind at the track, plus an elevation of about 1600-1800feet, I had a full tank of gas (went 8 miles since I filled it up), spare, jack, 2 helmits, all interior panels, everything, plus some of my stuff, my car was just over 2700lbs. The bottom end of my engine (including rings) has never been apart and has an estimated 120000Miles (I have a recall block), my transmission has 151000Miles on it, so I expect an extra 5-10HP this spring with new rings and all the crud cleaned out of the bottom end.

All I did was remove the cat, and portmatch and polish the head, that gave me about a 10% increase in power. I can scan the timeslip if anybody wants it.

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FastIndyFiero
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Report this Post01-22-2004 03:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FastIndyFieroClick Here to visit FastIndyFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email FastIndyFieroSend a Private Message to FastIndyFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's a little list I made a couple months ago. It'll build ya up a nice little 4 cyl...

code:

Item GM Part No. Price, GM parts Direct Status
(unless noted)
HD Distributor # 10037373 $297.30 [x]
SD Head # 10045437 [ ]
Stock Head # 10022373 [x]
SD Valve Cover # 10031327 $97.95 (Summit) [ ]

SD Intake # 10034870 $298.00(Flatlander) [x]
Brodix SD Head # 10038433 $339.47 [x]
SD Intake Valve # 10031339 $74.98 [ ]
SD Exhaust Valve # 10031325 $71.76 [ ]
SD Intake Gasket # FPP-12381 $19.69 (Summit) [ ]
# 12371032
SD Exhaust Gasket # FPP-1441 $20.99 (Summit) [ ]
SD Head Gasket # 10038952 $30.49 [ ]

SD Valve Springs (350) # 3911068 $38.91 [ ]
SD Rocker Arms # 5723551 $70.18 [ ]
SD Rocker Studs # 3921912 $28.15 [ ]

SD Block # 10027633 $$$$$$
SD Crank # 10027779


Nate Engel

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-22-2004).]

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quote
Originally posted by FastIndyFiero:

Here's a little list I made a couple months ago. It'll build ya up a nice little 4 cyl...

code:

Item GM Part No. Price, GM parts Direct Status
(unless noted)
HD Distributor # 10037373 $297.30 [x]
SD Head # 10045437 [ ]
Stock Head # 10022373 [x]
SD Valve Cover # 10031327 $97.95 (Summit) [ ]

SD Intake # 10034870 $298.00(Flatlander) [x]
Brodix SD Head # 10038433 $339.47 [x]
SD Intake Valve # 10031339 $74.98 [ ]
SD Exhaust Valve # 10031325 $71.76 [ ]
SD Intake Gasket # FPP-12381 $19.69 (Summit) [ ]
# 12371032
SD Exhaust Gasket # FPP-1441 $20.99 (Summit) [ ]
SD Head Gasket # 10038952 $30.49 [ ]

SD Valve Springs (350) # 3911068 $38.91 [ ]
SD Rocker Arms # 5723551 $70.18 [ ]
SD Rocker Studs # 3921912 $28.15 [ ]

SD Block # 10027633 $$$$$$
SD Crank # 10027779


Nate Engel

Here is the new list:

http://www.kansasracingproducts.com/pricelist.html

For $12,500 you can get an ARCA approved 2.6L SD4 generating 290HP@8500rpm.
This is a normally aspirated SD4 with a 500cfm 4-bbl carb.

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Report this Post01-22-2004 08:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What about the 'Duke performance parts from the Fiero Store?

84-86 4CYL 8mm SPLITFIRE WIRE SET - $40

84-86 HOLLEY BIG BORE THROTTLE BODY W/ SENSORS - $330

84-88 4CYL OCELOT PERFORMANCE EXHAUST W/ TIPS - $270

84-88 4CYL PERFORMANCE EXHAUST MANIFOLD - $220

Total - $760

How much should it cost someone to portmatch and polish the head? Roller rockers? And is there a stronger crankshaft you can swap in? I think it would be interseting to build a duke that can keep up with the stock 2.8.

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quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:

What about the 'Duke performance parts from the Fiero Store?

84-86 4CYL 8mm SPLITFIRE WIRE SET - $40

84-86 HOLLEY BIG BORE THROTTLE BODY W/ SENSORS - $330

84-88 4CYL OCELOT PERFORMANCE EXHAUST W/ TIPS - $270

84-88 4CYL PERFORMANCE EXHAUST MANIFOLD - $220

Total - $760

How much should it cost someone to portmatch and polish the head? Roller rockers? And is there a stronger crankshaft you can swap in? I think it would be interseting to build a duke that can keep up with the stock 2.8.

The Ocelot is not better than the stock system. It's just a different sounding exhaust. There is no performance gain from it. The Borla would be a better choice. If using the above plus a decent performance cam you could get to about 120hp.

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88_Fiero_2M4
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Those were some of the things that I mentioned but was told that it wouldnt work. that i would only see about 100 Hp. When I have the cash we will see what it will do but till then I have no more to say. I will just do it and let what I do speak for itself. I was never intending this to go so far out of hand but some people just have to take everything as a grain of salt and most dont. Sure I personaly dont know much about tunning engines and I have never clamed that I personal have the knolege, but I have friends willing to help out on the mods and after this summer is done and I have my other Fiero Running again I will post what I have done and the resoults.
But before I get flamed even more I will not say anything else to this matter.

------------------
Don Pottorff
Red 88 2M4
Silver 86 2M4

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quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

Those were some of the things that I mentioned but was told that it wouldnt work. that i would only see about 100 Hp.


No, You stated your cousin and friend said you could get 200hp with just a cam change. I said with all the above mentioned mods you were looking at 120hp and I also provided a link to a webpage that had done all the work and Dyno'd the engine. It seems everytime you make an incorrect statement and are called on it, you change your story. Now you are changing your story again.
Also just as a fact of reference. You were told in the post you may get 100 RWHP Which is roughly 120hp at the flywheel.

Here is a rundown of your statements that are impossible:
"Put on the Holly Throttle body, Get the new Intake Manifold, and header, and Port and Polish. with all that you should find a little over 200 HP, After that it starts to get real expencive."

"Both My friend and My cousin say that with the right cam and lifters alone could put the 2.5L in my Fiero Above 200 HP. "

"I have heard from several mechanics from Back yard shops and from Dealer shops say that just removing the Cat on some cars can bring as much as 50 More hp since they are so restrictive on an engine."


If you do not believe these are youe statements, Just look at your posts on page 1.

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Report this Post01-22-2004 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ditchSend a Private Message to ditchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88Fiero2M4:

Cut the Cat off, K&N filter, Remove the A/C belt, Comp Cam, and Roller Hydrolic Lifters. That will put you over the 140 hp mark and you will out run the stock V6 Fieros. Want to go faster yet. Put on the Holly Throttle body, Get the new Intake Manifold, and header, and Port and Polish. with all that you should find a little over 200 HP, After that it starts to get real expencive.

Figured I'd quote this in case someone decides to use the "edit" button.

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88_Fiero_2M4
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So then your saying that a 120 hp engine looses 20 hp thru the drivetrain. I find that hard to believe. then if that is so the Chiltens manual states that the 88 Fiero 2M4 is making about 92 hp at the crank then its only putting about 73 hp to the ground. Wich I doubt that the hp loss is that high. I figure that a Transversly engine looses less hp then a front engined car driving the rear wheels since the power has to be transmitted thru a longer heaver shaft. I dont see a transverce engine losing that much power. However I dont think that a engine could be limited so much on making power..... there has to be a way to make more power but if you all insist on attacking what I have to say, Fine but I have yet to see a Fiero with a V8 in it so should I just believe that all those shown here are just photoshoped to look like they are or take your word for it? I live by one saying Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. On that saying I am skeptical of anything anyone says or shows here. So I agree that anything I say is just BS and you should be skeptical of anything I say. Till I can do it and prove it dont believe it, I didnt ask you to believe anything I said, But I also didnt ask to be called a Fag or anything else I was called.

Most people see the possable and and ask why. I see the impossable and ask... why not.

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Report this Post01-22-2004 10:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On Borla's Website they only list an exhaust system for the V6 (They also describe the Fiero as a 2.8L V6 AT/MT FWD 2dr ) Did they make an exhaust for the duke/Tech4?

Also found this at the Fiero Store:

1984 PERFORMANCE CAM & LIFTER KIT - This custom ground performance camshaft offers increased valve lift and duration over the stock unit. These cam profiles were selected to provide maximum power and are still compatible with GM electronics. Engines will breathe better, which greatly increases horsepower output. Lift - .497, Duration - 280

- $190

84-87 4 CYL CATALYTIC CONVERTER KIT - Free-flow catalytic converter with clamps and adapters - $119

Is there a better one, or cheaper?

And something I've always wondered about:

1984 4 CYL STOCK ENGINE KIT W/PISTONS - Sealed Power engine kits provide all the necessary parts to completely rebuild your engine. Up-grade Hyperutectic pistons and Moly rings will increase power and performance. Kit includes: Pistons, Rings, Cam and Lifters, timing set, oil pump, all bearings (cam, rod, main), complete gasket and seal set, freeze plugs and new oil galley plugs.

- $442.40

The only cranks I saw at the Fierostore were reconditioned, is there a good aftermarket alternative, or stronger GM one that could be put in?

From Crane Cams:
http://www.cranecams.com/master/goldrace.htm

Gold Race Extruded Roller Rockers

Pontiac I-4 77-89 151 cu.in.

Stock ratio with enlarged stud diameter
99792- 1.71
7/16
22750-8 o

o Must machine cylinder heads and install 4 of 99157-2 7/16" rocker arm studs and pushrod guideplates (heat treated pushrods required).

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RWDPLZ

14373 posts
Member since May 2002
Also from Crane Cams:

PowerMax cams

http://www.cranecams.com/master/pmapps.htm

Pontiac 4 Cylinder 79-89, 151 cu.in. (2.5L) hydraulic, mechanical and roller

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USFiero
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Report this Post01-22-2004 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for USFieroSend a Private Message to USFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
15% power loss through the drivetrain is normal, so your figures sound on. Bferrar your conclusion I hear repeated over and over again by folks who have tried to build up the Duke. It's got to be frustrasting to go to the effort and be rewarded with 'only' 15-20% increase in power. Well, I say only because if you get 15% more out of a 200 hp motor, you've got 230 hp. If you are starting with a sub-100 hp motor, a virtually unheard of 50% increase would be less than 150 hp! Not to mention reliabilty is going to go down as the power goes up. As someone pointed out, we're giving our 'commuter cars' a little too much credit. You're gonna have to start with a motor with more potential. I'm not opposed to beefing up the Duke (heck it sounds like wholsome fun) and would if for some reason I had to put one back in my Fiero, but I would probably go with the minimum stuff - mild intake/head work, cam, roller rockers and the all important crank (from whatever donor it came from) and stronger internals along with the 'basic' techniques...port and gasket matching, balancing. I've followed enough documented buildups over the years to know that catalytic converters don't take much power away from exhaust systems so I'd keep it legal and green kids. I remember when really good engine builders and $$ could squeeze about 1 hp per cubic inch. Hmmm.

I'd be impressed if after all that I got 130 hp, a 30% increase.

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quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

So then your saying that a 120 hp engine looses 20 hp thru the drivetrain. I find that hard to believe. then if that is so the Chiltens manual states that the 88 Fiero 2M4 is making about 92 hp at the crank then its only putting about 73 hp to the ground. Wich I doubt that the hp loss is that high.

Typically a transaxle loses 15-20% thru it. The regular trans with a seperate differential loses about 15-20% thru the trans AND another 10-15% thru the differential. Amazing how you find it so hard to believe the 15-20% of loss thru a transaxle but believe a cam will net you a 102% increase in power!!!!


 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:
there has to be a way to make more power but if you all insist on attacking what I have to say,

Most people see the possable and and ask why. I see the impossable and ask... why not.

Because what you say is a true impossibility. Many have tried to explain it to you but you seem to not grasp the picture.
We have told you "why not" but you insist your friend and cousin know more than the folks who have actually tested mods and upgrades.
You think that the 2.5L in a Fiero flows as much air as 1/2 of a Chevy 350 V-8. Did you even go to the link I posted earlier about how they got 120hp out of a 2.5L?? Did you even read the article and understand the part about the flow thru the cylinder head and intake?
You stated : "Sure I personaly dont know much about tunning engines and I have never clamed that I personal have the knolege"
So how can you ask "why not" when you don't even grasp the basic concept when it is explained by numerous knowledgable forum members?
You came here and made statements that were based on assumptions from people with no experience on a particular engine, When those who have experience with the particular engine tell you it's not gonna happen, You get defensive and add more B.S. claims.
Now like a little hurt child you say "well I never saw a V-8 Fiero, so they don't exsist". Oh well, to each his own.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-22-2004).]

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I was also told of another head that one can change to. it has better flow and is from a simular engine. also from another mechinic friend of mine. One dosnt tell all the mods they plan as I want to be the first there. why should I tell all what I am doing... Just so they can take credit for it. I have yet to put all the modifications that Me and my Friends have thougth of. and yes they are some cheaper ideas if you know where to look. I am still convinced that one can get 200 HP out of a duke and I will be there to try it. I hope by the end of this summer I will have it done. If one can get 1300 Hp out of a 350 then asking to get 200 hp out of the duke is not that far fetched. I have found an engine that is already out of the car and ready to rebuild... half of the work is already done on it I just have to buy the parts for it.
Yes the lower end needs to be beafed up..... do you all think that I havent been thinking of a way thru this problem? and the swapping the head Idea was told to me a year ago from another mechanic. I am not as stupid as I look. I can think just like anyone else and I do have planns around some if not most of the problems.
Why do I wish to stick with the duke.... cause I see most of you swapping engines and who is going to stick with the oringal motor that came with the car? why swap to another engine. I have heard how much of a headack that is.
I also saw someone point out using lighter weight parts... that cuts down some what on the hp lose by getting rid of some of the resistance, allowing a engine to rev faster, thus making it so the engine dosnt loose much power.
Sure totaly it isnt going to be cheap but if it is what I want then it is worth it..... Isnt it. If I were just to give up on it, wouldnt that be just like giving into the others who say that the Fiero isnt worth having or fixing up? Funny when you get that same arguement from the Fiero Community itself.

But being that I have two Fieros maby I can go two differant ways with eather of them, the 86 I will be working on the duke, and the 88 will be getting a 3800 SC with a few other modifications.

One suggestion here was to use Nitrus..... ya and I will put one of those funny wings on my car as well.... and maby some of those stickers.... the idea is to not be rice I thought and NOS is a ricers way. Becides as I said before, Nitrus is dangrous. you dont know how to use it I would suggest not to use it. you can blow up your engine just as fast as you can hit that button for it. NOS is not for the every day person. You if you dont do it right will burn thru several engines before you learn how to use it right. and If you dont beaf up the lower end with it will you not destroy the engine after about the 5 or so hit of that stuff as well. I for one would not be so stupid to use Nitrous. Like you all said its not built to handle such stress.

[This message has been edited by 88_Fiero_2M4 (edited 01-23-2004).]

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Report this Post01-23-2004 07:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for crzyoneClick Here to Email crzyoneSend a Private Message to crzyoneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
SMACK!!!

Chevy 350- strong
Pontiac I4- Weak

You can not go comparing a 350 block to a pontiac fuel sipper 4 banger. Is this not easy to understand? Thin walled blocks with weak cranks and restrictive EVERYTHING do not make good engines to build up!

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Report this Post01-23-2004 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for OreifClick Here to visit Oreif's HomePageClick Here to Email OreifSend a Private Message to OreifEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

I was also told of another head that one can change to. it has better flow and is from a simular engine. also from another mechinic friend of mine. One dosnt tell all the mods they plan as I want to be the first there. why should I tell all what I am doing...

Then why did you list specific mods and say you'll get to 200hp? This forum is to SHARE ideas. Not posting a few mods saying you'll get 200hp then later state your not going to list all the mods.
Yes, the SD4 head does flow a lot better, But it has been done before and STILL has not hit 200hp using a production 2.5L block. With the SD4 block you can get to 300hp but the factory block is no where near the strength of a block designed for racing/high performance. Which is another point members have tried to get across to you.
The 2.5L is NOT 1/2 of a 350SBC it is really half of a Pontiac 301 V-8 which also happens to be a weak block.

 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

Yes the lower end needs to be beafed up..... do you all think that I havent been thinking of a way thru this problem? and the swapping the head Idea was told to me a year ago from another mechanic. I am not as stupid as I look. I can think just like anyone else and I do have planns around some if not most of the problems.

It is obvious you haven't been thinking about any problems. It seems that originally you thought a cam change will net you 200hp, and now you say you've known about a head swap a year ago. Like I stated above, This forum is to SHARE information and factual data. Neither of which you appear to be doing.
That is what people are trying to get across to you. If you want to build your engine up, don't you think it would be better to ASK others here what they did and what power they got rather than making statements like: "Just a cam change will get you to 200hp."?


 
quote
Originally posted by 88_Fiero_2M4:

Why do I wish to stick with the duke.... cause I see most of you swapping engines and who is going to stick with the oringal motor that came with the car? why swap to another engine. I have heard how much of a headack that is.
I also saw someone point out using lighter weight parts... that cuts down some what on the hp lose by getting rid of some of the resistance, allowing a engine to rev faster, thus making it so the engine dosnt loose much power.
Sure totaly it isnt going to be cheap but if it is what I want then it is worth it..... Isnt it. If I were just to give up on it, wouldnt that be just like giving into the others who say that the Fiero isnt worth having or fixing up? Funny when you get that same arguement from the Fiero Community itself.

There is nothing wrong with wanting more power out of the stock engine and looking for ways to do it. The point is (which you seem to be missing) is you came here and made statements which were not factual or based on anything more than second hand info from people who are not familiar with the 2.5L. When called on your basis for the data, you then changed your view. Nobody ever said the Fiero wasn't worth fixing up, But let's get real here, You are not going to get 200hp out of a 20 year old designed engine with all the mods you originally listed. It has been tried and although they did gain power, but it was not a 102% increase. You seem to put more value of information from people who don't even know the strong/weak points of a 2.5L then the many members here who have experimented and actually tried specific mods and have documented data.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 01-23-2004).]

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