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Top Pathologist Claims COVID-19 Is "The Greatest Hoax Ever Perpetrated by longjonsilver
Started on: 11-19-2020 04:37 PM
Replies: 46 (632 views)
Last post by: cvxjet on 11-28-2020 12:35 PM
longjonsilver
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Report this Post11-19-2020 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for longjonsilverClick Here to visit longjonsilver's HomePageClick Here to Email longjonsilverSend a Private Message to longjonsilverEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Virus travels 30 meters, so social distancing is useless. Masks are useless.

https://www.zerohedge.com/m...-unsuspecting-public

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Report this Post11-19-2020 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, the greatest hoax is that America has free and honest elections.
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Report this Post11-19-2020 06:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MidEngineManiacSend a Private Message to MidEngineManiacEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No, the greatest hoax is there is anywhere "free" left on this planet.
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Report this Post11-20-2020 08:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Let's kick this off (very logically) with the Original Post or "Message #0" as I sometimes like to call it--a "nod" to the forum software's message sequencing number system.

"Top Pathologist Claims COVID-19 Is "The Greatest Hoax Ever Perpetrated On An Unsuspecting Public"
 
quote
Top pathologist Dr. Roger Hodkinson told government officials in Alberta during a zoom conference call that the current coronavirus crisis is “the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on an unsuspecting public.”

Authored by Paul Joseph Watson via Summit News and reproduced at ZeroHedge; November 19, 2020.
https://www.zerohedge.com/m...-unsuspecting-public


I am willing to stake my several years of reputation as a reliably voluble Pennock's Totally Off Topic forum member (imagine that) . . .



. . . on my assertion, which I am about to assert, that this "Top" pathologist Dr. Roger Hodkinson is standing on some questionable and shaky ground, at the very least, if not literally spewing out a large dump truck-sized load of crap.

From the (brief) ZeroHedge report:
 
quote
Hodkinson said that the risk of death in the province of Alberta for people under the age of 65 was “one in three hundred thousand,"

What about the risks of becoming seriously ill, even to the point of being hospitalized? And what about the risk of being discharged from hospital but continuing to suffer from the effects of "Long Covid", which are known to persist for many months and in some cases, look to be irreversible? I think those risks are not being as accurately tabulated as the risk of outright mortality from Covid, but it's something that seems to elude the grasp of Hodkinson's reasoning in that statement, like a sharply-struck ground ball that leaks past the outstretched fielder's glove of a shortstop and bounds into left field for an RBI single.

But let me cut him some slack on that estimation. Maybe when he referenced the "risk of death" he also had in mind all of the other severely negative outcomes that I just described. Maybe all of that is already "baked" into his risk assessment of "one in three hundred thousand" for people under the age of 65 in the province of Alberta. I'm eager to move ahead to his remarks about social distancing and masks.

 
quote
Hodkinson remarked that “social distancing is useless because COVID is spread by aerosols which travel 30 meters or so before landing,”

Social distancing is "useless"..? I don't think a person has to be a practicing or fully credentialed scientist of any kind to see the improbability of that remark. It's commonly reported that a person's risk of becoming infected by the Covid virus is proportional to the amount of virus (literally, the number of Covid viruses) that they are being exposed to. It's not a binary or On-Off kind of situation, where the risk from being exposed to (in the limit) just a single virus is the same as or even remotely comparable to the risk from being exposed to a considerably larger number of virus particles.

Does Dr Hodkinson say otherwise to that? It's hard to imagine that he would. I think that would make him an enormous outlier from the world population of infectious disease experts.

Consider social distancing. It's best to avoid inhaling or any kind of exposure (on the eyes, in particular) to the viruses that would be shed by an infected person. It's mostly about not "swapping air" with another person, especially within an indoors context. Not breathing in the same air that the other person has just breathed out, and not becoming a target for any virus-laden droplets that the other person is projecting from their mouth as they speak. The farther away you are from that other person, the more that these virus transmission routes are reduced, as the other person's exhaled breath mixes with all the other air that is present (reducing the concentration of the virus) and the other person's droplets settle to the ground or onto some other nearby surface.

Six feet of social distancing is clearly preferable to being face to face and very close to that other person. Nine feet, even better. How would Dr Hodkinson estimate the risk (numerically) of being infected with the virus by aerosol, from as far away as "30 meters" from where the viruses were first put into the air by the exhalations or speech droplets of an infected person, and would it in any way compare (under most conditions) with the risk of being "up close and personal" with such an infected person?

I can't get my head around it, that he is using that example, of virus-laden aerosol at a distance of 30 meters from the origination point, to "shoot down" the effectiveness of social distancing. It's like he's saying that somewhere in the solar system, there's a big asteroid with Earth's "name" on it, so why bother to buckle into your seat belt and shoulder harness when you are about to drive your Fiero. Does that make much sense? Not hardly. Not to me.

If too many people aren't using proper face masks, or too many are not wearing the masks in an effective way, it's not because masks are part of a "hoax." It's because they haven't received or haven't incorporated the wisdom of the world renowned Vin'ster himself--Dr Vin Gupta--who advises the public on face masks in the most exemplary kind of way; to wit:



The better kinds of cloth masks. The widely used surgical-style single use masks or "robin egg blues." N95 masks. And eye protection and even full face shields. He tells it all.

What evidence is there for the efficacy of lower face covering masks in terms of interfering with person-to-person transmission of the virus? Interfering. Not completely stopping virus transmission under all circumstances, but reducing the transmission of the virus. Attenuating the transmission of the virus. That's the name of the game. It's like American-style football. The defense isn't expected to decide that it's all useless and call it a day, just because the opposing team's running back gained seven rush yards before he was tackled. What's the evidence? I see it here:

"Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech"
Fischer et al; Science Advances; September 2, 2020.
https://advances.sciencemag...ontent/6/36/eabd3083

"Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks"
Konda et al; American Chemical Society "Nano"; April 24, 2020.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/ab...1021/acsnano.0c03252

And a research paper that I posted on this forum a few days ago:

"Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech"
Emma P. Fischer et al; Science Advances 02 Sep 2020.
https://advances.sciencemag...ontent/6/36/eabd3083

The game can only be won by keeping the virus from scoring and using up clock time, until the Vaccine(s) are ready. Social distancing, face masks, self-restraint in the way of personal freedoms, formal restrictions on restaurants, bars, hotel occupancy, indoor gatherings (etc.)--it's all part of the game.

I don't see enough in that ZeroHedge report, or the brief YouTube video that's behind it, to induce me to credit this Dr Roger Hodkinson with any positive yardage on this play. I think he went from "first and ten" to "second and eighteen." The line of gain is that much farther away, when Hodkinson has the ball.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-20-2020).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post11-20-2020 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You are the expert at recognizing crap.
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Report this Post11-20-2020 09:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One doesn't have to be an expert to understand that if sick people stay away from well people that the well people have a MUCH MUCH greater chance of remaining un-infected.
This is but another of longjohnsilver's long tall tales of conspiracy theory that not even a 5th grader would seriously consider.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-20-2020).]

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Report this Post11-20-2020 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by longjonsilver:

Top Pathologist Claims COVID-19 Is "The Greatest Hoax Ever Perpetrated



Let's see what Synthesis has to say about that.

/mike drop/

[This message has been edited by Monkeyman (edited 11-20-2020).]

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Report this Post11-20-2020 06:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SynthesisSend a Private Message to SynthesisEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
*Puts on Drama Queen hat*

Yeah. I got nothing to say to the OP. Turns out my COVID hospitalization was all in my head and everyone EXCEPT the doctors and scientists are right. COVID is fake news and will disappear on November 4th.

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Report this Post11-20-2020 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, I don't know about all that, I'm no "expert" but, I believe it kind of depends on your perspective or maybe, what demographic you're in.
Those with weaker immune systems, those who are elderly are apparently better off if, they strictly follow CDC guidelines.

Younger and stronger folks aren't dying at the same rate. So, do your parents and grandparents a favor, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THEM.

Rams
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Report this Post11-20-2020 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

*Puts on Drama Queen hat*

Yeah. I got nothing to say to the OP. Turns out my COVID hospitalization was all in my head and everyone EXCEPT the doctors and scientists are right. COVID is fake news and will disappear on November 4th.


You didn't read the article on the website, did you?

Several people are making comments without actually reading the doctor's points. He didn't say Covid19 is fake news. He said the whole social distancing, masks, and lock downs are politics playing doctor.
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Report this Post11-20-2020 11:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Synthesis:

*Puts on Drama Queen hat*

Yeah. I got nothing to say to the OP. Turns out my COVID hospitalization was all in my head and everyone EXCEPT the doctors and scientists are right. COVID is fake news and will disappear on November 4th.


And you're still alive, right?
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Report this Post11-21-2020 01:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageClick Here to Email rinselbergSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This pathologist (Dr. Roger Hodkinson) is arguing against the measures that are being taken to slow the spread of the coronavirus, and arguing specifically against the (continuing) adoption of social distancing and face mask mandates, and he's also arguing against shutdowns and other limitations on venues and activities like office work with people actually at the office buildings (instead of working from home) and retail stores, restaurants, bars, family gatherings... but he does say there needs to be special consideration to protect the elderly and the most vulnerable to the disease.

According to the ZeroHedge report, Dr Hodkinson said this:
 
quote
Hodkinson said that the risk of death in the province of Alberta for people under the age of 65 was “one in three hundred thousand,"

How does he arrive at the number (fractional number) of "one in three hundred thousand"..? Is that based on the number of deaths from Covid that have already been recorded for Alberta province? And if that is the case, how do we separate that number from the anti-virus measures that have been in effect during this time, in Alberta province?

Is he making a kind of circular or self-contradictory assertion about this "one in three hundred thousand" risk of dying from Covid? In other words, is this "one in three hundred thousand" calculation (if it is a calculation) based on records from Alberta that were compiled during the imposition of the same restrictions on Alberta's population that he is now arguing against?

I don't know anything about Alberta province and what's been going on there. So I just have the question.

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-21-2020).]

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Report this Post11-21-2020 08:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No Expert here but, IMHO, masks work similar to a filter. No filter catches all of the contaminates but, they catch most of the larger contaminates and some of the smaller contaminates. It only makes sense to me that if one were to wear a mask, that filter would reduce the amount of contaminates or water vapor in the case of exhalation and make all of us a bit safer.

If, wearing a mask is too much to ask of the population, then please stay away from those who are more susceptible due to age or other immune system weaknesses. I can only imagine being responsible for the demise of someone else due to my own lack of concern for another's safety.
I don't like donning a mask either but, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Rams
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Report this Post11-21-2020 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:

No Expert here but, IMHO, masks work similar to a filter. No filter catches all of the contaminates but, they catch most of the larger contaminates and some of the smaller contaminates. It only makes sense to me that if one were to wear a mask, that filter would reduce the amount of contaminates or water vapor in the case of exhalation and make all of us a bit safer.

If, wearing a mask is too much to ask of the population, then please stay away from those who are more susceptible due to age or other immune system weaknesses. I can only imagine being responsible for the demise of someone else due to my own lack of concern for another's safety.
I don't like donning a mask either but, it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.

Rams

Good luck with that bit of sage advise.

Many, if not most of those anti-maskers don't care who they transmit covid to. Each other, immune system weakness, young people, middle age, old people... they don't care as long as they have their 'freedom' to do so. There are quite a few, in my age group that think this way too. They are worried what the economic effects are doing to their retirement and other benefits.
When they themselves get it and become dead people they won't need money.

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Report this Post11-21-2020 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe the anti-mask people believe as the doctor believes. Masks that we use everyday don't work.

Personally, I have become so used to wearing one that even now when mask usage is very low I still wear mine anytime I'm out. And I finally found a flu vaccine in Shanghai so I'm feeling ready for the winter. As soon as I can I'm getting the Covid vaccine too.
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Report this Post11-22-2020 11:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:

I don't know anything about Alberta province and what's been going on there. So I just have the question.



Media just post the high numbers. But here's a breakdown of the data...
https://torontosun.com/opin...nadians-need-to-know


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Report this Post11-22-2020 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:Masks that we use everyday don't work.


Masks absolutely work. It's not a conspiracy by the mask manufacturers. Most masks available to the public don't keep out (or in) 100% of the coronavirus but it's sure a heck of a lot better than no mask.

Personally, as long as nobody is near me (or my friends/family), I don't care if they wear a mask or not. If you're near me (or my friends/family), have a tiny bit of respect and put a mask on. I would also appreciate it if you wore the mask correctly (you know, covering both your mouth AND nose).
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Report this Post11-22-2020 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No 1 single thing works 100%. That has been stressed for months now, and masks are but 1 part of the protocol. It has also been stressed over and over that masks predominantly help prevent the wearer from spreading the pathogen to others and provide much less protection for the wearer.

Not rocket science, but it is science.
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Report this Post11-23-2020 07:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

No 1 single thing works 100%. That has been stressed for months now, and masks are but 1 part of the protocol. It has also been stressed over and over that masks predominantly help prevent the wearer from spreading the pathogen to others and provide much less protection for the wearer.

Not rocket science, but it is science.


This is exactly how I see it.
I also see that "anti-maskers" are just as wrong as those that think masks and social distancing is the cure. There is no cure, only caution.
People just don't have the will power to wear a mask correctly more or less when and where to wear a mask let alone actually social distance. I RARELY RARELY RARELY see the public doing masks and social distancing at all and when they do, they do not have it done correctly.
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Report this Post11-25-2020 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hudini:



There is a lot of emotion over this covid thing. I am TOTALLY ok with asking, recommending and suggesting masks and distancing and hand washing and hand sanitizer. I am equally AGAINST forcing ANY of it on America and have said from the start of this that history will look back at the covid lock downs in a bad light.
Forcing businesses to close and dry up and blow away is war against America. Forcing businesses to limit the number of customers to a less than profitable number is war against America. Forcing children to not get an education is war against America. Forcing families to not gather in their own homes is war against America. Forcing people to not be able to attend funerals, weddings, birthdays and get togethers is war against America.


I have bumped heads with some PFF members over choice, including Don "MJ" who asked me at one time "how much freedom are you willing to give up in the name of safety?". Well this is my chance to ask the same.
People are forced to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles for the privilege of using them, in the name of safety. But the people are free to take the safety gear off as they exit the dangerous privilege. People have argued (unsuccessfully) that drugs should be legal, in the name of personal choice, EVEN in light of knowing that the drug use will affect others...........BUT BUT BUT all of a sudden covid is a totally cool case for Nazi Germany style lock downs, arrests for no mask, arrests for large gatherings in private homes and businesses, curfews and closure of massive amounts of businesses and parks and public spaces ALL in the name of safety.
OK, what ever.
And people wonder why so many refuse to comply??? Even going so far as ridiculing them and calling them names and accusing them of being crazy or senseless or mindless or stupid or ignorant conspiracy theorists. I say none of you know "them" any more than you know the "experts". But the judgments role on like a train,....in the name of safety they shall be silenced and arrested and eventually FORCED to take medical treatment "vaccine" .....of course in the name of safety.
"How much freedom are you willing to give up in the name of safety?"
Legalize drugs for everybody but God forbid people go in public without a mask.
OK, what ever.......
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Report this Post11-25-2020 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
I have bumped heads with some PFF members over choice, including Don "MJ" who asked me at one time "how much freedom are you willing to give up in the name of safety?". Well this is my chance to ask the same.


A hell of a LOT, especially for other people's safety, health, and well being.

I've given up a heck of a lot more of my own freedom in the past than what these relatively insignificant Covid19 protocols call for, and with some pretty severe penalties for violating those restrictions.
Not my first rodeo.
Go spend a couple of years at Guantanamo Naval base when the cold war was still serious business or a year deployed on a man-of-war in the Western Pacific and Indian Ocean in the 70s and you'll know what real sacrifice of personal freedom means.

This stuff that's going on today? Masks?BFD
This stuff today? It ain't **** .

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-25-2020).]

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Report this Post11-25-2020 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


A hell of a LOT, especially for other people's safety, health, and well being.




My argument has been the exact same in reference to drugs. And all I got was arguments hate and negative ratings. The same exact thing can be said about Policing and laws over the years.
Now, for some reason, people see it my way,..... "in the name of public safety, things need to be restricted and laws need to be made."
Why is it this covid thing that changes things? Safety is safety if it is fighting a "drug war" or a war against an overblown politicized virus that is NOT an Earth ending issue.
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Report this Post11-25-2020 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rickady88GT

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Member since Dec 2002
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


This stuff that's going on today? Masks?BFD
This stuff today? It ain't **** .



I feel EXACTLY the same way as this.
I DO NOT feel the same about forcing people to make the right choices. THAT is theirs to make not mine or yours or ANY politicians choice.
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Report this Post11-25-2020 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
BTW, thank you Don for your sacrifice. Regardless of the things we may disagree on, I want you and others to know that I recognize the sacrifices that have been made for the good of America and it's imperfect people including me, thank you.
For what it is worth, I was not alive during Nam, but my Father served there as well as my neighbors, who both husband and wife served in
Guantanimo. The stories are crazy and intriguing.
I am a Navy brat. My Father served 20 years and I grew up basically Fatherless as he was deployed for much of my childhood. Sacrifices, yes you have made them, and others have too in their own ways.
Covid ain't Sh** and the both of us know it. MUCH worse can and will happen to America.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 02:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I now know someone middle aged who just died yesterday and Covid put her down. She was very overweight but active...worked a normal office job and traveled the world when time allowed. Weight caused the typical health issues but she didn't maintain any of it medically. That didn't cause any issues for her in living a normal life. Covid-19 can hinder you dramatically when you seem healthy.

When she got infected she waited 2 days before going to a walk-in clinic. By then she couldn't make it across the room without being out of breath.
She had developed pneumonia. The clinic called an ambulance for the premier area hospital but it was full so she went to her local county hospital.
She was put on O2 but soon she started experiencing heart & kidney issues. When an opening came up to transfer to the premier hospital she declined moving.
She also refused the ventilator.
Her O2 saturation went down to 60 within a few days in the hospital even on supplemental O2, then it regained to 80 for one day.
The following day kidney failure had really set in and she passed later yesterday.

Political correctness won't allow our society to draw attention to people's weight. Modern medicine has allowed people to live fairly normal lives with weight related health conditions. Covid-19 doesn't recognize political correctness.

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-26-2020).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-26-2020 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Well I now know someone middle aged who just died yesterday and Covid put her down. She was very overweight but active...worked a normal office job and traveled the world when time allowed. Weight caused the typical health issues but she didn't maintain any of it medically. That didn't cause any issues for her in living a normal life. Covid-19 can hinder you dramatically when you seem healthy.

When she got infected she waited 2 days before going to a walk-in clinic. By then she couldn't make it across the room without being out of breath.
She had developed pneumonia. The clinic called an ambulance for the premier area hospital but it was full so she went to her local county hospital.
She was put on O2 but soon she started experiencing heart & kidney issues. When an opening came up to transfer to the premier hospital she declined moving.
She also refused the ventilator.
Her O2 saturation went down to 60 within a few days in the hospital even on supplemental O2, then it regained to 80 for one day.
The following day kidney failure had really set in and she passed later yesterday.

Political correctness won't allow our society to draw attention to people's weight. Modern medicine has allowed people to live fairly normal lives with weight related health conditions. Covid-19 doesn't recognize political correctness.



It is my opinion that in general, America is very unhealthy. Our schools have been saying for years that the kids are over weight and inactive. MANY Americans are on or taking some type of medication for something. Very few Americans lead an "active" life style.
This virus seems to be an extreme predator of pre-existing conditions, even in the "healthy" community.
People ask why American has such a difficult time with this virus compared to other Countries, all of the debates aside let's assume this is true. I wonder if this virus is an indicator of the health of our population rather than the lack of precautions?

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-26-2020).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-26-2020 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Political correctness won't allow our society to draw attention to people's weight. Modern medicine has allowed people to live fairly normal lives with weight related health conditions.


It's not like the information isn't out there. I tried to give some gentle reminders in This recent thread. However, it was no surprise that these posts got very little traction. Many people live for the moment, with scant regard to consequences.
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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-26-2020 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

It's not like the information isn't out there. I tried to give some gentle reminders in This recent thread. However, it was no surprise that these posts got very little traction. Many people live for the moment, with scant regard to consequences.


Sometimes the truth REALLY hurts. I think this is one of those times to be brutally honest, if we are going to discuss covid to it's N'th degree. Bad health has VERY real consequences whether it is our fault (out of shape or bad diet) or totally out of our hands like genetics or other out of our control variables.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They accuse people of fat shaming and treat it like bullying/hate speech.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

They accuse people of fat shaming and treat it like bullying/hate speech.


I totally understand the emotions of it,..I honestly do. But this covid is so "in our face" that we need to put the thin skin aside and talk about how to keep living a life. We all want to know more about how covid works, but do we even bother to ask how we ourselves are have made us more vulnerable to it? That is outside the typical PPE, but our bodies itself.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 05:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, there's got to be a medium of agreement somewhere. As long as the system fosters people finding something to be offended about to divide us we're going to be losing lives.
The woman I spoke about would not listen to coworkers encouraging her to take on healthier ways. She would stop talking to them until she forgot about it. Very sweet person, but wouldn't be coached by those who cared about her.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Yeah, there's got to be a medium of agreement somewhere. As long as the system fosters people finding something to be offended about to divide us we're going to be losing lives.
The woman I spoke about would not listen to coworkers encouraging her to take on healthier ways. She would stop talking to them until she forgot about it. Very sweet person, but wouldn't be coached by those who cared about her.


This may a bit off topic, but I will go there anyway.
The fattest, or more specifically speaking,..... most out of shape people that I work with are the medical staff. Take it for what it is worth, but it is true. The medical staff that I work with are the heaviest of the lot. Not just where I work, but I look around at the hospital staff and at the local health care clinics like dentists office and vision clinics alike. Who is to teach us about personal health better than the people we depend on to take care of our health?
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Report this Post11-26-2020 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniClick Here to Email HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

Yeah, there's got to be a medium of agreement somewhere. As long as the system fosters people finding something to be offended about to divide us we're going to be losing lives.
The woman I spoke about would not listen to coworkers encouraging her to take on healthier ways. She would stop talking to them until she forgot about it. Very sweet person, but wouldn't be coached by those who cared about her.


She chose the way she lived. Yes you can try to educate her but in the end she died having made her choice long ago. What this thread is about is having the government force you to give up your freedom to choose the way you live. Even knowing this virus kills more older folks especially with comorbidities, she lived and died by her own choices. Dangerous freedom vs safe slavery.
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Report this Post11-26-2020 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sourmashClick Here to Email sourmashSend a Private Message to sourmashEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I get your point but it relates, totally. People are blaming Trump for the situation and calling for more lock downs of everyone using this stuff for a reason.We're still open but it's probably a matter of time now that the Sun is down earlier, temps are changing plus it's the coming of flu season.
A family member has been looking for someone to die to blame Trump for it because he didn't do something soon enough, or something. It took 6 months until she actually could name someone she knew who had contracted it and after 6 months still of waiting it was still Trump's fault. She knew this recently deceased woman intimately and is the one told me about the lack of medical interest by her and still had to be reminded of the personal choices that were made.
Not sure she's connected the dots yet, but this was her coworker. And another of their coworker's mother had just tested positive and makes me wonder if it came to the gone girl through the 3rd girl. The other girl's mother didn't have a big problem from it.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
This may a bit off topic, but I will go there anyway.
The fattest, or more specifically speaking,..... most out of shape people that I work with are the medical staff. Take it for what it is worth, but it is true. The medical staff that I work with are the heaviest of the lot. Not just where I work, but I look around at the hospital staff and at the local health care clinics like dentists office and vision clinics alike. Who is to teach us about personal health better than the people we depend on to take care of our health?

Nurses are notoriously heavy duty.

Who was it, the prime minister of Hungary who said to drink vodka and play ice hockey?

[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 11-26-2020).]

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post11-26-2020 09:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sourmash:

I get your point but it relates, totally. People are blaming Trump for the situation and calling for more lock downs of everyone using this stuff for a reason.We're still open but it's probably a matter of time now that the Sun is down earlier, temps are changing plus it's the coming of flu season.
A family member has been looking for someone to die to blame Trump for it because he didn't do something soon enough, or something. It took 6 months until she actually could name someone she knew who had contracted it and after 6 months still of waiting it was still Trump's fault. She knew this recently deceased woman intimately and is the one told me about the lack of medical interest by her and still had to be reminded of the personal choices that were made.
Not sure she's connected the dots yet, but this was her coworker. And another of their coworker's mother had just tested positive and makes me wonder if it came to the gone girl through the 3rd girl. The other girl's mother didn't have a big problem from it.

Nurses are notoriously heavy duty.

Who was it, the prime minister of Hungary who said to drink vodka and play ice hockey?



As ugly as it may be, the truth hurts and it most likely hurts the guilty more so than the "not so" guilty. So if it offends you (whosoever may be reading this) don't look at me or anyone else as a fault, look at yourself first. Then we can move on with an honest conversation about covid.
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Report this Post11-27-2020 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BoondawgClick Here to Email BoondawgSend a Private Message to BoondawgEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lazy-thinking is far more of a danger to America than all the other things combined.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
People are forced to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles for the privilege of using them, in the name of safety.


People are no more "forced" to wear seat-belts & motorcycle helmets anymore than they are to obey speed limits.
You can choose not to.
Just because suicide is illegal don't mean you can't kill yourself.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
People have argued (unsuccessfully) that drugs should be legal, in the name of personal choice, EVEN in light of knowing that the drug use will affect others.


Drugs are not "illegal".
Possessing/using them without "authorized" (government) permission is.
And even then, only partly.
Marijuana possession/use is legal here in spite of it being illegal federally.

Everyone's personal choices can be claimed to "affect" others, from a neighbors ugly tree, to a strangers abortion.
But others "feelings" about it don't trump that persons personal choice.

This recent "argument" that the government can't infringe on one's free-will by mandating that they wear a mask in public is incredibly simple-minded.
The "government" (society, actually) already mandates that you wear "protective gear" when you're in public, even if you don't necessarily need that protection.
It's called clothes.

And it's not even to protect yours or another's health.
It's for other peoples fragile mental comfort.
What you may see as freedom others can see as personally intrusive.

Look, it's simple.
When we all agree to live in a society, we agree to certain rules about how to safely & fairly accomplish that.
For the health & well-being of that society as a whole.

If one doesn't want to oblige societies rules, one can still move to the wilderness.
Social rules may no longer apply, but you still won't be in the clear completely.
Some laws will still apply.

You can't murder.
Or marry your Mother.

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Report this Post11-27-2020 04:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:

BTW, thank you Don for your sacrifice. Regardless of the things we may disagree on, I want you and others to know that I recognize the sacrifices that have been made for the good of America and it's imperfect people including me, thank you.
For what it is worth, I was not alive during Nam, but my Father served there as well as my neighbors, who both husband and wife served in
Guantanimo. The stories are crazy and intriguing.
I am a Navy brat. My Father served 20 years and I grew up basically Fatherless as he was deployed for much of my childhood. Sacrifices, yes you have made them, and others have too in their own ways.
Covid ain't Sh** and the both of us know it. MUCH worse can and will happen to America.

On the contrary, covid's protocols ain't **** compared to what many in the world have experienced in other times and events, but Covid the disease and it's direct health effects has the very real potential to eclipse anything that's ever taken place in my lifetime and even in the lifetime of my oldest living family member..

It has already killed more people in the US in 11 months than the Vietnam War combat deaths did in 10 years.
It has killed more people in the US than the Korean War combat deaths did in 3 years.
It has killed more people in the US than WW1 combat deaths did.
It has killed more people in the US than WW2 combat deaths did & is on track, to within another year, surpass the number of US WW2 all causes deaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...ry_casualties_of_war



https://www.nationalww2muse...-us-military-numbers
https://www.worldometers.in...onavirus/country/us/

Feel free to prove wrong those stats.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-27-2020).]

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blackrams
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Report this Post11-27-2020 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsClick Here to Email blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

On the contrary, covid's protocols ain't **** compared to what many in the world have experienced in other times and events, but Covid the disease and it's direct health effects has the very real potential to eclipse anything that's ever taken place in my lifetime and even in the lifetime of my oldest living family member..

It has already killed more people in the US in 11 months than the Vietnam War combat deaths did in 10 years.
It has killed more people in the US than the Korean War combat deaths did in 3 years.
It has killed more people in the US than WW1 combat deaths did.
It has killed more people in the US than WW2 combat deaths did & is on track, to within another year, surpass the number of US WW2 all causes deaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...ry_casualties_of_war



https://www.nationalww2muse...-us-military-numbers
https://www.worldometers.in...onavirus/country/us/

Feel free to prove wrong those stats.



While I'm much in agreement with maryjane, what I think is important to point out is that the numbers are skewed IMO. A huge number of people have died with COVID 19, not of COVID 19. But regardless of the percentage of that smaller group to the whole, the fact is, exposure to anyone with a lessor immune system is likely to result in death. The CDC has released numbers indicating the survival rate is actually very high for those with good immune systems. But, who really wants to go through that. Heck, I don't even want to catch a cold much less the flu or, COVID 19.

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Notorio
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Report this Post11-27-2020 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NotorioSend a Private Message to NotorioEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't disagree with Maryjane's comparison based on the 270,000 number but I do want to toss in some data the way I think Covid19 deaths should be discussed, namely, as Deaths per Million. Here is a screen shot of a table on Statista.com, a subscription service (but if you are interested you can see all 150 country's data on there for free.) My point is that the USA is currently pushing 11th place on the list. The safest place to be is Burundi, with only 1 Covid19 death and the worst place to be is Belgium. Unfortunately, night-after-night all we ever get shown on the news programs are the absolute deaths which make the USA look to be the worst place to be.

Now there are a couple of points that I think it will take a LONG time for science historians and epidemiologists to slice out of the data:

1) What determines a 'Covid19 Death' is not being calculated the same in all countries, even within countries like the USA. For example, if I die of covid the normal rules for death certificates would probably list my Heart Disease as the 'primary' cause of death and the covid as the 'secondary' cause. This is because that reflects that my underlying health problem made me easy pickings for the opportunistic virus. Now, I know a medical professional who has told me that in California at least my death certificate would probably state Covid as the 'primary' cause because the hospital would get more money that way. So the lack of uniform standards world wide (or even county wide) and the degree to which standards were followed (or not followed) will take some unraveling in the future.

2) Someone has mentioned in all the responses that the USA does not have a very healthy population compared with many other countries with many citizens suffering from overweight-related medical conditions. Since US deaths per million are more or less in the Top 10, this really does seem to highlight our general susceptibility to what's going around. This seems like it should be a Key Takeaway for health officials going forward. Why IS the US population so unhealthy? I would love to see the Surgeon General really tackle that issue and develop strategies to incentivise healthy living. (But no, I would not favor forced compliance a la extreme Left pipe dreams ...)

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