I've never understood how the "lasers" in Star Wars are always assumed to be lasers from earth. They also have ion cannons and proton torpedoes, as well as many other weapon types for ship to ship.
Also, Star Wars ships (and fighters) are shielded, as well as armored.
Add that to the fact that Star Wars tech has had 25,000 years of development and the reasources of an entire galaxy versus 24th century Federation tech.
It is hard to imagine any scenario where Trek would ever win such a battle.
The only edge Trek has is transporter tech. But since the enemy ships are shielded, no beaming across.
I don't know if they ever got specific on the actual speed the vessels in Star Wars traveled at but good ole Enterprise #2 could do warp 7 which was about 100 times the speed of light.
There are shields in the Star Wars universe. That's what their Ion cannons are for - taking down shields. It would likely do a number on the Enterprise's shields and once past that their electronics.
The ST photon torpedo and SW proton torpedo appear to be very similar in concept. No clue about yield, but I'd think they're comparable.
Here's a fun pic for you: Click to show We've seen how the Enterprise D can dish out damage against a Borg cube. It could do that for weeks against a Super Star Destroyer and still not hit anything important.
And then there's this:
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-03-2015).]
88, any Arkillian prince could tell you that size is irrelevant. You humans. When are you gonna learn that size doesn't matter? Just 'cause something's important doesn't mean it isn't very very small.
Formula88, that is an awesome chart. I wish I could blow that up and wallpaper my basement wall with it large enough to be able to see each ship easily and in detail.
As for the debate...since Star Wars is set in a galaxy far far away, it's largely irrelevant. But I'll agree with those that say Star Trek ships over Star Wars ships, and Star Wars Jedi over Star Trek people.
From a personal point of view, my favorite series is the new Battlestar Galactica series. Loved it so much that my kids bought the box set for me for Christmas. Just spent the last week re-watching the entire series. I find it is the most "realistic" series. Really the only things in it that push the limits are FLT (Faster Than Light) drives, gravity plating and Cylons. No energy weapons (lasers, phasers, etc), no shields and no aliens. The space physics for the movement of the ships also has a more realistic feel. The day to day life of people and the surviving community is also a more realistic reflection of what would be expected. Just my thoughts. Others may disagree.
Also, Star Wars ships (and fighters) are shielded, as well as armored.
Yeah... I read that first meme and was thinking... They talked about shields on the ships in several of the movies. Heck, they ran into the Ewoks because they were on the planet to disable the shield protecting the new Deathstar.
Yeah... I read that first meme and was thinking... They talked about shields on the ships in several of the movies. Heck, they ran into the Ewoks because they were on the planet to disable the shield protecting the new Deathstar.
And that shield was strong enough to repel the firepower of the entire Rebel fleet, which included ion cannon designed to take down shields. The tech was there, it's just a matter of how it would compare in a Trek reality.
Those two big round things that look like RADAR domes? Those are shield generators.
The Hoth base had shielding strong enough to repel orbital bombardment. That's why they had to launch a ground assault to destroy the generator.
Even the aluminum falcon had sheilds. (0:24sec)
One interesting bit about SW shield is they stop energy, but not matter. A Kamikaze attack still gets through. IF the Trek shield have a similar limitation, just throw all the TIE fighters at the Trek ship and see if any impact. Trek cannon has shown it doesn't take much physical impact to damage a warp core.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-03-2015).]
And that shield was strong enough to repel the firepower of the entire Rebel fleet, which included ion cannon designed to take down shields. The tech was there, it's just a matter of how it would compare in a Trek reality.
Those two big round things that look like RADAR domes? Those are shield generators.
The Hoth base had shielding strong enough to repel orbital bombardment. That's why they had to launch a ground assault to destroy the generator.
Even the aluminum falcon had sheilds. (0:24sec)
One interesting bit about SW shield is they stop energy, but not matter. A Kamikaze attack still gets through. IF the Trek shield have a similar limitation, just throw all the TIE fighters at the Trek ship and see if any impact. Trek cannon has shown it doesn't take much physical impact to damage a warp core.
We've seen how the Enterprise D can dish out damage against a Borg cube. It could do that for weeks against a Super Star Destroyer and still not hit anything important.
Wouldn't need to. The Enterprise D shot up the Borg cube because, in its first engagement, there was no other apparent way to attack it. There was no discernible bridge or operations center, not any other conventions. A cube is completely decentralized.
This is not true of the Super Star Destroyer nor the Death Star itself. Enterprise's sensors would suss out exactly where to fire to take out the shield generator, the engines and the bridge. Long before the crew of the Death Star knew that they were there, Defiant would approach from a direction exactly opposite of its primary weapon. A couple of quantum torpedoes would neutralize that target well enough.
And there's always the Picard Maneuver. :)
Keep in mind, the original starship Enterprise faced and figured out how to take down a device that demonstrated its ability to destroy a planet.
This is not true of the Super Star Destroyer nor the Death Star itself. Enterprise's sensors would suss out exactly where to fire to take out the shield generator, the engines and the bridge...
They might know where to aim, but they still need to punch through the shields to get to the shield generators. Shields that have had 25 thousand years of development and galaxy-spanning intelligences engineering them. To Star Wars tech, the Enterprise is a Sopwith Camel and a Star Destroyer is an F-22.
As for the speed argument from an earlier post, Star Wars ships can literally travel the galaxy in days or weeks (the Nubian 427 went from the outer rim to Curoscant in a short amount of time.) The entire rebel fleet hid outside of the galaxy (above it) in the void of space.
In Trek, only about 30% of the Galaxy is even explored, and the Federation's fastest ship, Voyager still takes a lifetime to cross a quarter of it.
Borg tech and transwarp conduits make them more of a threat, but in the classic Federation vs. Empire argument, I'd put my money on the 25,000 years in the making galaxy spanning empire.
I'm a fan of both franchises (love the Prometheus in the ST:V episode "Message in a Bottle") but there is no comparing the two.
Edit: Spelling! Grrr
[This message has been edited by Flamberge (edited 01-03-2015).]
They might know where to aim, but they still need to punch through the shields to get to the shield generators. Shields that have had 25 thousand years of development and galaxy-spanning intelligences engineering them. To Star Wars tech, the Enterprise is a Sopwith Camel and a Star Destroyer is an F-22.
As for the speed argument from an earlier post, Star Wars ships can literally travel the galaxy in days or weeks (the Nubian 427 went from the outer rim to Curoscant in a short amount of time.) The entire rebel fleet hid outside of the galaxy (above it) in the void of space.
In Trek, only about 30% of the Galaxy is even explored, and the Federation's fastest ship, Voyager still takes a lifetime to cross a quarter of it.
Borg tech and transwarp conduits make them more of a threat, but in the classic Federation vs. Empire argument, I'd put my money on the 25,000 years in the making galaxy spanning empire.
I'm a fan of both franchises (love the Prometheus in the ST:V episode "Message in a Bottle") but there is no comparing the two.
Edit: Spelling! Grrr
And yet, in all that time and all that technology, they still were just piss poor shots.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-04-2015).]
Wouldn't need to. The Enterprise D shot up the Borg cube because, in its first engagement, there was no other apparent way to attack it. There was no discernible bridge or operations center, not any other conventions. A cube is completely decentralized.
This is not true of the Super Star Destroyer nor the Death Star itself. Enterprise's sensors would suss out exactly where to fire to take out the shield generator, the engines and the bridge. Long before the crew of the Death Star knew that they were there, Defiant would approach from a direction exactly opposite of its primary weapon. A couple of quantum torpedoes would neutralize that target well enough.
And there's always the Picard Maneuver.
Keep in mind, the original starship Enterprise faced and figured out how to take down a device that demonstrated its ability to destroy a planet.
Good points. I'm not saying the Star Wars ships would win, but I did want to point out flaws in the most common arguments on why Trek would win, i.e. lack of shields, "lasers" vs. phasers, etc. SW ships have "turbolasers." What's a turbolaser?
What's the baddest ship in each universe? Super Star Destroyer or Death Star for Star Wars. USS Vengeance for Star Trek (reboot). What can they each do?
Its advanced phasers could be fired while the ship was at warp. The ship was also equipped with additional technologically-advanced features including better shielding, more advanced transporters, and enhanced warp capabilities.
Weaponry
The weapons systems of the Vengeance included an array of powerful advanced phasers and two massive swivel-mounted torpedo launchers that could be deployed from beneath the saucer section. The ship could also launch drones which were in turn capable of launching several photon torpedoes before reaching their target.
The Sovereign-class starship had several weaponry enhancements over previous starship classes, including quantum torpedoes as well as photon torpedoes, and numerous phaser banks and arrays.
The Sovereign-class originally employed twelve phaser arrays at key locations throughout the ship's hull. Seven dorsal phaser arrays were located on the primary hull, one extending around the saucer section, giving it an oval appearance. Six smaller arrays covered the aft dorsal firing arcs and were located along the aft portion of the saucer section, above the main shuttlebay.
Four ventral phaser arrays were located on the primary hull, extending around in nearly a half circle on both the starboard and port ventral sides of the saucer section. A single phaser array was located along the ventral section of the engineering hull, running perpendicular to the hull. (Star Trek: First Contact, Star Trek: Insurrection) During the refit, four were added to the trailing edges of the warp nacelle pylons (one dorsal and one ventral for each pylon) bringing the phaser array count to sixteen. (Star Trek Nemesis)
In her original configuration, the Sovereign-class mounted five torpedo launchers. The "main" launcher was located on the ventral portion of the saucer on a turret and was supplemented by one twin-tube launcher, forward and aft at the bottom of the secondary hull. The refit saw the addition of five more tubes: three on the dorsal saucer section (a single tube facing forward on Deck 3 and a twin-tube launcher facing aft [located above the aft saucer airlock]) as well as two on the secondary hull, both facing aft – one above and one below the secondary hull shuttlebay.
Length: 19,000 meters Armament: Over 5,000 turbolasers and ion cannons
or Death Star which is only listed as having "thousands of weapons platforms" and the Superlaser. All we know is the Superlaser can destroy a planet in one shot.
Of course the biggest obstacle to any meaningful comparison is dramatic license. In each reality the ships were as strong, or as vulnerable as required for the dramatic license at the time.
And yet, in all that time and all that technology, they still were just piss poor shots.
They actually had an explanation for that. Growing clones at normal human growth rates produces superior troops, like Boba Fett and the original Clone Wars troopers. Later the Empire started accelerating the development to turn out troopers faster, which produced lower quality clones.
You're thinking of George Lucas. He's the plush toy looking entity that led to the SW empire's demise.
No, I distinctly remember one of the great and exalted heroes of the rebellion being this jarjar fellow--him and some fuzzy little bear things that just flat took all those centuries of technology and development down.
They might know where to aim, but they still need to punch through the shields to get to the shield generators. Shields that have had 25 thousand years of development and galaxy-spanning intelligences engineering them. To Star Wars tech, the Enterprise is a Sopwith Camel and a Star Destroyer is an F-22.
25,000 years of development to repel laser beams, which didn't even work. As the original article stated, it only took a few shots from a couple of fighters and the crash of a single man fighter to take out this huge ship.
quote
As for the speed argument from an earlier post, Star Wars ships can literally travel the galaxy in days or weeks (the Nubian 427 went from the outer rim to Curoscant in a short amount of time.) The entire rebel fleet hid outside of the galaxy (above it) in the void of space.
In Trek, only about 30% of the Galaxy is even explored, and the Federation's fastest ship, Voyager still takes a lifetime to cross a quarter of it.
Borg tech and transwarp conduits make them more of a threat, but in the classic Federation vs. Empire argument, I'd put my money on the 25,000 years in the making galaxy spanning empire.
I'm a fan of both franchises (love the Prometheus in the ST:V episode "Message in a Bottle") but there is no comparing the two.
Edit: Spelling! Grrr
Lasers still can't be fired at hyper speed, while Photon and Quantum Torpedoes can, giving Starfleet an important tactical advantage. As I see it, in any engagement, it would take a starship only one shot to critically disable or destroy a typical Star Destroyer.
Then there are the Klingons, the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Breen, the Tholians, the Dominion and the Borg (amongst others) to deal with.... I don't see it going well for the Emperor.
I think a better/more level playing field (as far as universes) would be the Galactic Empire vs. Battlestar Galactica (pre Cylon invasion).
EDIT: Code
[This message has been edited by Patrick's Dad (edited 01-04-2015).]
Fleeing (barely) from the Cylon tyranny, the last battlestar, slow ass Galactica, leads a rag-tag fugitive fleet at a snail's pace on a lonely quest....
25,000 years of development to repel laser beams, which didn't even work. As the original article stated, it only took a few shots from a couple of fighters and the crash of a single man fighter to take out this huge ship.
That is because the "lasers" have also had 25,000 years of development. Just as in real life, military offense is usually superior to military defense, all things considered.
In the example you cite the SSD had taken punishment to its shields from the entire rebel fleet over the course of the conflict. When the shields dropped, they destroyed the now unshielded generator.
A lucky kamikaze hit to the bridge was enough for the backup chain of command to pull the massive SSD out of the Death Star's considerable gravity well. Or unlucky if your name is Arvel Crynyd.
It is the Star Wars equivalent of dropping your sniper rifle right when you are about to take the shot and the weapon goes off and still hits the target between the eyes.
In the example you cite the SSD had taken punishment to its shields from the entire rebel fleet over the course of the conflict. When the shields dropped, they destroyed the now unshielded generator.
This happened just seconds after Admiral Akbar gave the order to concentrate fire on the SSD.
quote
A lucky kamikaze hit to the bridge was enough for the backup chain of command to pull the massive SSD out of the Death Star's considerable gravity well. Or unlucky if your name is Arvel Crynyd.
It is the Star Wars equivalent of dropping your sniper rifle right when you are about to take the shot and the weapon goes off and still hits the target between the eyes.
I must have missed this. Where in the explosive spearing of the DS by the SSD did it escape?
I wish I could blow that up and wallpaper my basement wall with it large enough to be able to see each ship easily and in detail. 
I find it is the most "realistic" series. Really the only things in it that push the limits are FLT (Faster Than Light) drives, gravity plating and Cylons. No energy weapons (lasers, phasers, etc), no shields and no aliens. The space physics for the movement of the ships also has a more realistic feel. The day to day life of people and the surviving community is also a more realistic reflection of what would be expected. Just my thoughts. Others may disagree. 
