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FS: Bigger Brake Booster ($100 brake upgrade) by sardonyx247
Started on: 01-30-2012 06:02 AM
Replies: 413 (20734 views)
Last post by: steve308 on 11-26-2020 05:14 PM
Grabber Green
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Report this Post10-31-2014 11:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Grabber GreenClick Here to Email Grabber GreenSend a Private Message to Grabber GreenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If anyone needs a booster to send to Dave, please PM me. I have two spares and would be glad to ship one to him on your behalf for $50. That's the equivalent of your core charge and I'll take care of the shipping.
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sardonyx247
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Since this is a new page, just want to say pricing is current on page 1 post 1.
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Report this Post11-21-2014 11:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for johnyrottinClick Here to Email johnyrottinSend a Private Message to johnyrottinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How many of these have you done now? Have you ever had someone do a before and after brake test? Kind of like a 50 to 0 distance before and after the swap is what I mean. I think I may be in line for one of these this summer...

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 11-21-2014).]

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Report this Post11-21-2014 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just installed the booster last weekend, and am having issues. I am NOT saying it is any fault of the booster, just hoping to figure out what it is.

After installing the booster, and new Grand AM calipers in the front, and Stainless Steel brake lines, and bleeding the brakes WELL, the pedal is extremely soft, and travels almost all the way to the floor. We bled, and re-bled the brakes, and could not clear it up. I then installed a new master brake cylinder, thinking the old one was going bad. Then we bled 3 bottles of fluid through to ensure there was no air trapped high up in the lines. Still the same exact soft pedal.

I have noticed when I get to 30 MPH or so, if I press on the brakes HARD, the pedal will go about half way down and the car will gradually slow down. If I continue to apply pressure, or even a little bit more (Having to pull up on the steering wheel to get the pressure I am talking about here), a mechanical "clunk" is heard, and the pedal goes down another inch or so, and the brakes lock up. I have not been able to determine where the "clunk" is coming from. I have rechecked the pin and connector between the pedal and the banjo on the booster.

I can 99% rule out that there is air in the lines, we bled so much fluid through, starting with the right rear, and working our way around. The reservoir was never aloud to get too low while doing this, and we went through over 3 bottles of brake fluid.

I am at a loss. New stock calipers in the back, new Stainless Steel brake lines, new Grand AM calipers in the front, swapped out the master brake cylinder for another one, new S-10 brake booster. Basically, an entire new brake system top to bottom.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If someone were to pull out suddenly, or I had to stop quickly for any reason, I would certainly not be able to stop in time.

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-21-2014).]

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sardonyx247
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A couple things you need to do, make sure the e brake is adjusted right as it makes a huge difference, also if you have all new pads make sure to "bed in" the brakes, a search will show you how, it also makes a big difference. The ga calipers will also make the pedal a little lower and softer than the stock feel.
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Report this Post11-21-2014 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My understanding is that the stopping distance remains the same, but the effort is less. Am I right?
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JohnWPB - " Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If someone were to pull out suddenly, or I had to stop quickly for any reason, I would certainly not be able to stop in time."


I have read about the mechanical "catch" happening when the GA front calipers are used with the stock Fiero master cylinder.The problem goes away with a larger MC.

See

http://fierozone.tripod.com/realbrakes/

for more info.
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sardonyx247
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quote
Originally posted by tshark:

My understanding is that the stopping distance remains the same, but the effort is less. Am I right?


No your stopping distance decreases, for the same pedal input you get 40% more clamping force, thus the "feeling"

One club member said this booster will make the car stand on end. Someone a couple pages back said he thought, his eyes were going to pop out when he tried it. It makes a Fiero stop so much better. I wouldn't do it if it was just for the feel. This will make your car stop sooner.
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sardonyx247
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sardonyx247

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And new pads always feel like you have no brakes untill you "bed them in"
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Report this Post11-22-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Personally I actually bought it for the "feel". I hate having to use the force it takes on the stock Fiero brakes compared to a newer car.

As for stopping sooner, I guess that is debatable. If you can "lock up" your stock Fiero braking system when pressing the pedal, then there really is no way to change a booster and then be able to stop sooner / distance wise. Sure it will be much easier, but physically, it can not stop the car any sooner.

Just changing the booster is absolutely going to change the force you need to apply to the pedal, but it's not going to change the amount of actual grip the pads have on the rotors.

I honestly do not think the booster is my problem here, I will dig further and try the things mentioned above and see what I come up with.

Has anyone else had to change out the master cylinder when installing this booster?

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 11-22-2014).]

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Report this Post11-22-2014 01:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

One club member said this booster will make the car stand on end. Someone a couple pages back said he thought, his eyes were going to pop out when he tried it. It makes a Fiero stop so much better. I wouldn't do it if it was just for the feel. This will make your car stop sooner.


I could tell the difference just going back and forth in the driveway.

And my brakes were pretty good to begin with. New pads, new calipers, new hoses and new fluid. Even with all those new parts (which helped considerably over my old parts), the S-10 booster made a big difference.

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quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

Personally I actually bought it for the "feel". I hate having to use the force it takes on the stock Fiero brakes compared to a newer car.

As for stopping sooner, I guess that is debatable. If you can "lock up" your stock Fiero braking system when pressing the pedal, then there really is no way to change a booster and then be able to stop sooner / distance wise. Sure it will be much easier, but physically, it can not stop the car any sooner.

Just changing the booster is absolutely going to change the force you need to apply to the pedal, but it's not going to change the amount of actual grip the pads have on the rotors.

I honestly do not think the booster is my problem here, I will dig further and try the things mentioned above and see what I come up with.

Has anyone else had to change out the master cylinder when installing this booster?



If you can lock up your TIRES then you need better tires, as with any brake upgrade.
If your brake system locks then you have other problems, like a dragging caliper etc.. but 90+% of the time it is tires breaking traction.

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Report this Post11-22-2014 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


If you can lock up your TIRES then you need better tires, as with any brake upgrade.
If your brake system locks then you have other problems, like a dragging caliper etc.. but 90+% of the time it is tires breaking traction.


Ok, now this has me intrigued.... You are saying if you put the pedal down hard, and you can lock up the brakes (Making the tires skid), this means you have bad tires? NO... sorry... but just N O. This only means that you have pressed the pedal down too far. You need to press till you just feel that you are almost breaking traction, and keep it right before that point for best braking efficiency and control.

That is all that ABS does, brakes till the tire just barely breaks traction, and then backs off.... it does this over and over roughly 15 times per second.

A skilled driver can come close to stopping as good as a car equipped with ABS, but most people will instinctively just stomp on the brakes in a panic, and slide the tires. ABS is basically just a system to prevent that from happening.
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Report this Post11-24-2014 12:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Ok, now this has me intrigued.... You are saying if you put the pedal down hard, and you can lock up the brakes (Making the tires skid), this means you have bad tires? NO... sorry... but just N O. This only means that you have pressed the pedal down too far. You need to press till you just feel that you are almost breaking traction, and keep it right before that point for best braking efficiency and control.

That is all that ABS does, brakes till the tire just barely breaks traction, and then backs off.... it does this over and over roughly 15 times per second.

A skilled driver can come close to stopping as good as a car equipped with ABS, but most people will instinctively just stomp on the brakes in a panic, and slide the tires. ABS is basically just a system to prevent that from happening.


YES and just YES, to show the point I will use an extream for an example.
10 year old, dry rotted, hard, bald, low traction rating, skinny 12" tires will NOT have the same braking traction as brand new, soft compound, sticky, AA traction rating, 15" tires.

ALL power and braking is put to the ground through the tires.

bad tires, stock Fiero brakes can lock up the tires, good tires and you can stand on it and they won't lock.
Otherwise, if you can lock up the tires with stock brakes then ALL brake upgrade are pointless. Just not the case.

Even the "traction rating" on a tire is for "wet weather braking"

So yes tires make a huge difference in braking.

Even just after one year tires don't perform as well as when brand new.

Just ask any racer/autocrosser/etc if tires make any difference in traction and see what they say.

And it has been proven in tests that the bigger booster gives 40% increse clamping force givin the same input pressure. So yes it does help braking.
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Report this Post11-24-2014 02:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

bad tires, stock Fiero brakes can lock up the tires, good tires and you can stand on it and they won't lock.


I have decent new all weather tires on my Fiero, and before the brake booster, I could lock the brakes. Of course it took a LOT of force on the pedal, but yes, I could lock them.

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
Otherwise, if you can lock up the tires with stock brakes then ALL brake upgrade are pointless. Just not the case.


Not true, as you clearly point out here:

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
it has been proven in tests that the bigger booster gives 40% increse clamping force givin the same input pressure.


That could also be interpreted that 40% less force is needed on the pedal. Even without locking the brakes, it is a huge upgrade just to have a lighter pedal. Having to pull up on the steering wheel to get enough pressure on the brake pedal was just not for me
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Report this Post12-06-2014 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:


Ok, now this has me intrigued....


No kidding. Just when you think you have heard it all, something like this pops up.

"If you can lock up your TIRES then you need better tires,"

And "If your brake system locks then you have other problems,..."WOW!!

Kevin
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quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:


No kidding. Just when you think you have heard it all, something like this pops up.

"If you can lock up your TIRES then you need better tires,"

And "If your brake system locks then you have other problems,..."WOW!!

Kevin


Did you read the whole post explaining it?

The time when tires "lock" is when the tires break "traction".

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 12-06-2014).]

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Sill for sale
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Booster shipped.

Who wants the next one?
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Report this Post02-06-2015 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tsharkSend a Private Message to tsharkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some of this is perception. We can hopefully all agree that, in the same physical Fiero, if my wife and I each drive it, the braking characteristics won't change in a few minutes' time due to the car. In those conditions, the car stops fine for me. My wife says she has to stand on the pedal. Not scientific, I know, which is my point. The brake pads/calipers/lines/fluid/valve/etc won't improve or degrade with the driver change. Some people like a firmer feel; others a light touch. Our body weight and leg strength are also factors. Yes, I can lock up my brakes, which perform to factory spec on stopping distance. My wife cannot lock up the brakes, even if hauling on the wheel. If I want to use less effort, does that suddenly mean that my brake system is bad? Are my tires now inadequate? (Actually, they're very old, but that isn't important.). My rear brakes are adjusted and working, but wouldn't adequately stop the car on their own.

[This message has been edited by tshark (edited 02-06-2015).]

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Report this Post02-17-2015 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is not a debate thread, it is a for sale thread.
Please keep this to the topic at hand.

And Yes they are still for sale.
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Report this Post02-17-2015 11:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for George P WoodClick Here to Email George P WoodSend a Private Message to George P WoodEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My booster was installed over a year ago and I love the way it works.
Now my fiero's brake performance more closely matches that of my other vehicles.
It's an 88GT.
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Report this Post02-19-2015 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Northwoods2Click Here to Email Northwoods2Send a Private Message to Northwoods2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll be looking for one myself. I have a lot of gathered parts for my car, she looks good, but have a lot of fun to do to it yet. I have new drilled and cross cut rotors waiting for me in the mail right now. But once again it is gonna get to -18 out tonight again. I had a high temp of 0 today. Damn weather. I will buy one from you, I just have to wait till it's more spring like temps out there for me. I have a nice garage, but not heated yet. I'll take my old one out for you when my weather is ready.
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Another 2 shipped out

Who's next?
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Another one shipped out,

Who wants the next one?
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Report this Post03-11-2015 09:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As easy as it was to install, and as good as it worked, I would install another one in my car if I could
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Report this Post03-16-2015 08:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for orygunparsonClick Here to Email orygunparsonSend a Private Message to orygunparsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do you have any more boosters for sale?
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sardonyx247
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I just broke my collar bone over the weekend so it will be awhile before I can resume making boosters.
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Report this Post03-17-2015 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for orygunparsonClick Here to Email orygunparsonSend a Private Message to orygunparsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry to learn of your broken collar bone. You'll be in my prayers for a quick healing and recovery. Please put me down for a booster when you resume building them. Take care!
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Report this Post03-18-2015 01:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by orygunparson:

Sorry to learn of your broken collar bone. You'll be in my prayers for a quick healing and recovery.


Thanks,
I sent you a private msg

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 03-18-2015).]

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post03-18-2015 01:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a good friend who said he would help me assemble the boosters, (he is also certified in brake boosters) So if you need one let me know, at this point it will prob be a week out before I get it in the mail, depends on his schedule.

I may be laid up, but I still want people to have better brakes. We will make this work.
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orygunparson
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Report this Post04-03-2015 01:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for orygunparsonClick Here to Email orygunparsonSend a Private Message to orygunparsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sardonyx247

Just received my booster today - beautiful! It will be installed next week. Thanks for a high quality product!
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post04-19-2015 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Another 2 shipped out
Enjoy guys.
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