I don't remember the formula to calculate the actual ratio? But I will try to find it for you. But the F body rack will turn a maximum of 2.25 turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock. The Vette rack will turn a max of 2.0 turns lock to lock. The inner tie rods act as the bump stops, so they are not adjustable and the travel of the Vette racks should all be the same. Only the number and size of "teeth" on the rack gear and pinion are changed to make different ratios. This Vette rack gear moves MUCH further with each turn of the steering wheel than the stock Fiero rack.
Is there a way to decrease the racks travel by adding pump stops in the rack? I have problems with tires hitting the control arms at full lock on my 88. I'm real keen on trying the Z1 powersteering rack but also would need the rack travel to be shorter so that the racks pumpstops are hit before the tires start to rub. Is there a way to accomplish that? Would it work the same in a stock rack?
Yes you can add a bump stop to the rack. Unclamp the boots from the rack and slide them away from the rack. With the wheels turned as far as they will go before they rub, you will be able to see how far the inner tie rod is from the rack body. Measure that gap and have a machine shop cut a piece of nylon plastic stock in the shape of a large washer that is thick enough to span the gap you measured. Then cut out about 1/3 of the washer and insert the "C" shaped washer in the gap. Make sure the two sides have exactly the same washer. Then put the boot back on. If the gap is not very muck and the washer is too flimsy to stay in place then you could replace the stock plastic bump stops that are on the inner tie rods. They look like a small cup they clips over the inner tie rod. GM made diferent thikness's of these bump stops. I think the Fiero has the thin white one's, so you can check the wrecking yards for the thick blue ones and put them in your rack. I would not do the "C" washer, I would do the stock replacement or take off the inner tie rods from the rack and insert the washer over the inner tie rod without cutting it. Then put the tie rods back on the rack. This is a pic of the nylon washers Yours will not be nearly as thick as this but you should get the idea.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-03-2006).]
This is the stock GM rack bump stops. The white one is out of the Fiero and the blue one is out of an Intrigue. I have no idea if you can get them from GM?
the Fiero ones are .139" and the blue ones are .298. That is a significant amount, so you could grind,sand or file the blue ones down to the thickness you need.
This is how they fit on the stock tie rods. They just cover the inner tie rod and snap into place.
I took the adapters to a CNC Machine shop today. I need to know if any body wants a copy? The more I have them make the cheaper they will be. They will be made out of molly and if I have just one copy of them made it could cost $200. If I have 50 made they could be about $50. It takes one adapter per side so that is a price range from $400-$100 for the two adapters. He has only given me a "rough" estimate. Obviously I would rather pay $50 bucks for the two but that depends on how many are made? I will order 10 sets for my self as I has 3 88's that will get a Vette rack soon. So if you know any one that wants a set please let them know that now is a good time to let me know. If I get little to no response I will not have them made, I will just have the ones I need made at a conventional shop. Each set may cost about $100 but that is cheaper than $200 if the CNC shop only makes mine.
This is the prototype set that I took in. The CNC versions will be improved.
He will give me a call on Monday for an official quote.
Thank you.
Rick
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-21-2006).]
Rickady, I didn't notice what year ZR-1 rack you are using.
Through my rushed research, I found two different part numbers seperating the early years from the later years C4 ZR-1 in the power steering rack. No actual data, just different part numbers. Any insight into this?
Rickady, I didn't notice what year ZR-1 rack you are using.
Through my rushed research, I found two different part numbers separating the early years from the later years C4 ZR-1 in the power steering rack. No actual data, just different part numbers. Any insight into this?
No, I don't know? I got the rack off of EBay around Xmas when nobody had money to spend. All I know is that it is a ZR1 rack and has exactly 2 turns lock to lock. The numbers search came up negative on my end too. But I will get a standard C4 Vette rack to do the rest of my conversions. The ultra fast ratio of the ZR1 may be a bit much for a daily driver. I will go to the GM dealer to see if they can tell what generation it is?
Will your adapters fit the conventional corvette rack or just the ZR-1 ? How abou the f-body ?
I'd be interested in a complete set of all the custom pieces; rack adapters, mounts, pump bracket, etc. I'll be using this for my daily driver, so maybe the ZR-1 is too quick (and I need to keep my A/C) .
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-21-2006).]
If you decide to make more addapter for the Z1 rack and maybe a bracket to be welded to the crossmember Id be more than interested. I want to do this swap. The play on my original 88 rack is driving me nutty..
I will notify you of the cost when the shop calls me. They have not yet called. As far as the mount goes, it is kind of complex for me to do in my garage, but I will give it a shot. The lines I use cost about $200. They are hydraulic rated pipe that is bent to fit under the car and fallow the recesses so nothing hangs down. They look like the stock brake lines but without the "spring" around them. Shipping would be a bummer too. They are about 8 feet long and are a crazy shape.
One of the "big" things I'd need is a bracket to mount the pump to the engine and still keep the A/C.
i guess the pieces to do the install are:
- f-body / corvette / ZR-1 rack - adapters for the steering rack - mount for the steering rack - lines from the front to the back - bracket to mount the pump to the engine - fluid res. tank
Did i miss anything ?
Come to think of it, shipping the lines are not a problem for me - I can just drive to you and pick everything up
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-25-2006).]
One of the "big" things I'd need is a bracket to mount the pump to the engine and still keep the A/C.
i guess the pieces to do the install are:
- f-body / corvette / ZR-1 rack - adapters for the steering rack - mount for the steering rack - lines from the front to the back - bracket to mount the pump to the engine - fluid res. tank
Did i miss anything ?
Come to think of it, shipping the lines are not a problem for me - I can just drive to you and pick everything up
Lots of small stuff I had done a power steering swap in a week end. But before the car was brought over, I did up an X member, pump bracket and lines. Then I just swapped out the entire front suspension and put in a pump and lines.
OK, the machine shop called back and said the parts will cost allot of money Just one part, one adapter NOT one pair will cost over $200. But if I buy 26 pieces or 13 pair it would cost me about $1500. If you would pay $120 + shipping for the adapters I could do it. But I wont do it with out support from selling them. I can get the parts made for about $100 at a conventional shop, but the CNC is defiantly worth the extra $20. And the conventional shop takes a LONG time to get the stuff done. If I order more parts, the cost drops below what a conventional shop will charge.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-25-2006).]
OK, the machine shop called back and said the parts will cost allot of money Just one part, one adapter NOT one pair will cost over $200. But if I buy 26 pieces or 13 pair it would cost me about $1500. If you would pay $120 + shipping for the adapters I could do it. But I wont do it with out support from selling them. I can get the parts made for about $100 at a conventional shop, but the CNC is defiantly worth the extra $20. And the conventional shop takes a LONG time to get the stuff done. If I order more parts, the cost drops below what a conventional shop will charge.
I am putting a 3800Sc in an 88 and havent removed the PS pump yet. I also have an entire 88 Front crossmember sitting in the shed. So if I could get the brakets you may be making. All I would need then is a rack (which do you preferr), fluid resivour and the lines to the back right?
If thats the case. Give me a final price to 17404.
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1988 Fiero Formula T-Top # 1008 of 1252 (5 Spd White /Gray) Click here to go to my Web site Please use the Rating system accordingly
I am putting a 3800Sc in an 88 and havent removed the PS pump yet. I also have an entire 88 Front crossmember sitting in the shed. So if I could get the brakets you may be making. All I would need then is a rack (which do you preferr), fluid resivour and the lines to the back right?
If thats the case. Give me a final price to 17404.
Right now the only price I have is $120+shipping for the adapters. The steering rack mount will need to be resigned to a less complex shape. That way I can sell them at a reasonable price.
Will the engine fit with the pump and all the stock accessories in the stock location?
I wonder if the powersteering pump off of an L67 wil transplant to the 2.8 fiero motor (for the time being, untill I install the L67). Anybody done this?
I wonder if the powersteering pump off of an L67 wil transplant to the 2.8 fiero motor (for the time being, untill I install the L67). Anybody done this?
That is the pump I was fitting to the 2.8. It has the wrong pulley (it has a wide serpentine belt and the 2.8 has a narrow sup and a V belt) and the reservoir is kind of large. So fitting it is is a problem. I need to go to the yard to find a better pump.
Will the engine fit with the pump and all the stock accessories in the stock location?
I dont see why not. People put their Alternators in there when they do a lowmount alt setup. But when I do get that far is when I will find out if there are any clearance issues.
I love your ingenuity. I'll take a set, but I need to know what years corvette to buy the rack from for these adapters? Also, any more assistance on the mounts would be extremely helpful for those of us not quite as handy as yourself. Don't get me wrong, I think I can do it, but copying yours is ever so much easier. Thanks.
$120 is still quite a lot o money, but I would pay it if you are not able to do it for less. We are lalking about the ZR-1 rack, right? Would you be willing to share the addapter dimensions and specs so we could have our own made, maybe locally?
Also I would still like to fit the l67 pump to the 2.8 somehow. I have no AC so I would want to put it over where the AC-compressor used to be. Another pulley would need to be fitted to the powersteering pump to make it compatible with the 2.8 belt type. This can be done I'm sure. But if the reservoir is too large could that be mounted elswhere in the hydrollic system? Up front by the crossmember or radiator or so? Or does it NEED to be by the pump?
Well, it looks like I don't have enough interest in the CNC parts. So I will see if the conventional shop can make some for me. If I can get them made I will offer them to those that want them. The ZR1 rack is the same as the regular rack. It just has a faster ratio. The adapter will work for the ZR1 or standard C4 Vette. I just have not got around to nailing down the years they will work on.
I may have convinced my wife that I need my own mill and lathe. If I get them I could make all the parts I need here at my own house. Even the mounts would be MUCH easier for me to produce.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 04-28-2006).]
I don't want you to go out and buy a mill for us here on the forum. If it worked out that you had one and could make the mounts and adapters, that would be absolutely AWESOME. I have read your thread several times, and I am still leary of making the mounts as I don't have the equipment to bend and shape that thick of metal. If I could purchase the mounts and adapters, I would have no problem with the lines, pump, etc. Time consuming, YES, but no unsurmountable hurddles. Please let us know how this all shakes out.
I've wanted my own mill and lathe for years, I've been making so many custom parts it doesn't make sence to keep paying the machine shop to do it for me. I'll keep you informed.
I need a set of the adaptors - I had planned on just making them myself but if it increases the quantity enough I'd buy them. I already have the 2 turns ratio Corvette rack. I just have not started the steering project yet as I am working on completeing my N* installation. One project at a time. I got the rack from a yard too, not sure what year it came from. Let me know on the adaptors Rick? Dave.
OK, it seems I have 9 people interested in sets. That's pretty close to what I need to make an order from the cnc shop. The shop told me it would be 4 weeks to produce them, is that a problem for anyone? Also, I need to pay for these up front so I have to ask if you are willing to send a money order first then I can pay the shop. I will also see about making the mount if anyone is interesting in that too.
Let me know if you have any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Sometimes I work a lot of overtime so it might take a couple days to get back on the computer. My wife will help out if she can.
I'll be using this for my daily driver, so maybe the ZR-1 is too quick (and I need to keep my A/C) .
Just one part, one adapter NOT one pair will cost over $200. But if I buy 26 pieces or 13 pair it would cost me about $1500. If you would pay $120 + shipping for the adapters I could do it. But I wont do it with out support from selling them. I can get the parts made for about $100 at a conventional shop, but the CNC is defiantly worth the extra $20. And the conventional shop takes a LONG time to get the stuff done. If I order more parts, the cost drops below what a conventional shop will charge.
