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Northstar swap, Grin Reaper style (56k warning by motoracer838
Started on: 02-13-2007 11:03 PM
Replies: 152 (12423 views)
Last post by: motoracer838 on 05-29-2018 07:54 PM
motoracer838
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Report this Post02-27-2007 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:

I see Harbor freight must love you almost as much as they do me
Just curious if you've checked out if the emergency brake cables will still make it through the maze. when I did mine I found it to be very tight quarters to fit them in, and was glad I had planned ahead well.
That rear mount looks great. It's nice to see someone thinking outside the box on a project for a change.



It seems like I can't go to Harbor freight without spending at least a hunderd dollars at a shot.

I do have to make brackets for the cables, but they'll clear nicely. Thanks again Russ.

Joe

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Deabionni
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Report this Post02-28-2007 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DeabionniClick Here to Email DeabionniSend a Private Message to DeabionniEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Great work!

I can't wait to see this get finished.

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David DeVoe
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Report this Post03-01-2007 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David DeVoeClick Here to Email David DeVoeSend a Private Message to David DeVoeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hey Joe, what grade steel did you use for that rear motor mount and what size wire did you use? By the way it s a work of art.

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THE BEAST
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Report this Post03-01-2007 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for THE BEASTClick Here to Email THE BEASTSend a Private Message to THE BEASTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


The next time your down from Fort Fun, you need to stop by.

On to what everybody is waiting for, the latest update, the rear engine mount.



Before I tore the car apart I took some measurments with the suspension fully extended in relation to the cradle to have a point of reference for determining where the axle would be during the mock up process.



this allowed me to leave as much material in the side plates as possible.



The rear mount tacked up.



Fiting the rear brace.



fitting the bottom.





A couple of shots of the finished mount.

Untill next time. Joe



Sir you have a new PM!

JG

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-01-2007 09:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by THE BEAST:
Sir you have a new PM!

JG


Back at ya'

what Brown did for me today...


I just love UPS. the parts came from Summit.

Flowmaster # 43083 crossflow for F-bodies 3" in duel 2 1/2 out
Magnaflow 3" cat
U bends in 2 1/4, 2 1/2 and 3
The last of the mount fabrication

The engine sitting on its mounts.

Iv'e got a rough week coming up at work so I wont have anything to report on 'till next weekend.

Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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countach711
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Report this Post03-04-2007 12:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for countach711Click Here to visit countach711's HomePageClick Here to Email countach711Send a Private Message to countach711Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Great work as usual, Joe! It's nice to see you getting practice for my car ;-)

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-06-2007 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I'm exausted,
or
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laying pipe, Grin Reaper style,

I'll do the tail pipes in the car.

While I was working on the exaust, Don ( Klingon Fiero ) came over and lent a hand changing out the pedal assembly and shifter, helping to return the car from a auto back to a stick. thanks Don!!!

Things at work went better than expected wicth allowed me to take today off.

I should be doing the trial fit of the drive train in a couple of days.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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RCR
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Report this Post03-07-2007 07:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Awesome job...I have to keep reminding myself that it's not as easy as you make it out to be...Very nice...

Bob

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KlingonFiero
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Report this Post03-07-2007 11:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KlingonFieroClick Here to visit KlingonFiero's HomePageClick Here to Email KlingonFieroSend a Private Message to KlingonFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Awesome job...I have to keep reminding myself that it's not as easy as you make it out to be...Very nice...

Bob


The scary part is just watching him makes it feel like it should be "just that easy"... It is amazing to watch him at work. A very creative mind!

-

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Christine
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Report this Post03-07-2007 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ChristineClick Here to Email ChristineSend a Private Message to ChristineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nice work Joe. As allways

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-09-2007 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Jim Youngs, the editor of Kit Car Builder has Just discoverd PFF.

I had bumped the thread to help him find it, we are talking about doing an artical when the swap is done.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 03-09-2007).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-09-2007 11:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Damn, that things big!!!
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Wo hoo it's in,


I feel like I just stuffed a Hemi in this thing!!!


the oil pan is only a 1/2" from being even with the bottom of the subframe and the front valve cover baerly clears the modifed hinge mount.

Thats all for tonight. Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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Russ544
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Report this Post03-09-2007 11:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Russ544Send a Private Message to Russ544Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Damn, that things big!!!



ha ha. just wait til you get the rest put in there. it's positivly roomy now things like the dogbone, oil cooler, radiator purge system and charcole canister all need to go in there somewhere to ya know.
lookin good though.

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iamtylerdurden
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Report this Post03-10-2007 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for iamtylerdurdenClick Here to Email iamtylerdurdenSend a Private Message to iamtylerdurdenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

i just started an intro to welding class and even though iv only completed the arc welding portion i just wanted to tell you your welds look really good motoracer. hopefully eventually i can be that good of a craftsman!

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-11-2007 01:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Reality check, or this is why you should tack weld every thing then test fit. There are a couple of things I don't like about how the drive train is fitting into the car, I know that with as big as this engine is there are going to be some compromises, but I'm just not comfortable with how it currently fits in the engine compartment.

I'll start with moving the new crossmember down and forward a 1/2 inch, this will open up the room I need to move the engine down to the point that the oil pan is even with the bottom of the crossmember, I'd be a lot happier with this if the pan was steel but thats one of those compromises that I'll have to live with. Side to side is good but I'll also move the engine back about 1/2 inch to give me a little more room at the firewall.

I knew better than to weld every thing solid but I let my confidence get the better of me and now I get to pay for it.

One of the reasons I'm giving so much info on this is to help other people trying this swap, to avoid some of the problems Iv'e encountred along the way.

Thanks for wacthing, and thanks to everybody for all of the positive comments.

Stay tuned for more fabrication. Joe

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fierofetish
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Report this Post03-11-2007 03:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofetishClick Here to Email fierofetishSend a Private Message to fierofetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Wow!! Wow oh wow oh WOW!! Dream welds, Joe!! This is brilliant stuff..my oily old hat is off to you. Great to see such fabrication going on, and I wish I was there to witness it in the flesh ..could DEFINITELY learn some things from you.
Having just spent the last 18 hours on designing and building some more gates (2) and rejillas (3), it was nice to sit back and see somebody else's welding for once!!
The welder that I was given, which is an Esab 160 compact, has made welding fun again .It welds so cleanly, and I don't have to keep messing about with wirefeeds, gas joints etc.I can weld twice as quickly now, which saves/earns me more money The machine is 18 years old, but is still smooth as silk.
I will be keeping an eye on this thread every day from now on!! Keep up the excellent work, and thanks
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 03-11-2007).]

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RCR
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Report this Post03-12-2007 06:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRClick Here to Email RCRSend a Private Message to RCREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Awesome detailing Joe...Any pics on what you didn't like about the fit? This way I can see what not to do when I do mine.

Bob

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DEMONCHILD
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Report this Post03-12-2007 04:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DEMONCHILDClick Here to Email DEMONCHILDSend a Private Message to DEMONCHILDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

lol im still a lil new to this n i kno som ppl name their cars n so i ask this grin reaper style?...

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mrfiero
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Report this Post03-12-2007 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by DEMONCHILD:

lol im still a lil new to this n i kno som ppl name their cars n so i ask this grin reaper style?...


I think he meant grim reaper style (just misspelled it ) since it will likely kill him before he's done!

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dratts
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Report this Post03-12-2007 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

regarding your remark "stuffing a Hemi in there" , Isn't the N* a hemi? Aren't all dohcs hemis?

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niemann99
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Report this Post03-12-2007 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for niemann99Send a Private Message to niemann99Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ah, technically, any DOHC engine with 4 four valves per cylinder ( or more ) are called pentroof combustion chambers. Very similar to a "hemi" but no cigar. There were some DOHC engines with hemi combustion chambers, notably Alfa's of the 50's 60's and 70's, but there are none today.

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-12-2007 10:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by DEMONCHILD:

lol im still a lil new to this n i kno som ppl name their cars n so i ask this grin reaper style?...


The cars name is Grin Reaper, ( alltho MrFiero just might have a point, thats funny Mike ) because of how much fun it's been to drive and that was with the 4.9 and auto. I could have named the thread something like, Northstar swap Motoracer838 Style, but I thought this sounded better.

On with tonights update.

I posted this pic in another thread but I'll post it here as well
Is there something wrong with this bracket? it doesn't look right to me.

Some of the rework, keep n mind some of what I'm doing here is simply to locate the engine in it's new place, 1/2" down and 1/2" to the rear.
This is a temporary mounting of the front trans mount, this mount and the crossmember will be replaced with new after I build a new rear trans mount bracket to accommodate the new location of the engine and transaxle
New holes to move the rear engine mount back, the old holes will be welded up once I'm sure I like the new location.


Same here the new holes allow the engine to move down and the old will be welded up.
Here I've trimmed the lip away to clear the oil pan.

I'm tired and I'm going to bed. Goodnight.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-12-2007 11:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:

Awesome detailing Joe...Any pics on what you didn't like about the fit? This way I can see what not to do when I do mine.

Bob


I'm sorry that I didn't get some better pics while it was in but the biggest problems were that I had almost no clearance at the right hinge mount, even after triming it to within an inch of it's life, and I wanted a little more room at the fire wall. This is where my OCD anal retetive perfectinist tendencies manifest themselfs. I don't mind reworking the parts too much, as I tend to go by the thought that no matter how nice it looks or how long it took, that can't justify using the part if it's not right.

when Iv'e got it where I like it and am happy with it, I will provide measurements for location.

Joe

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Report this Post03-13-2007 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hi Joe, your install is looking great. I don't know if you can use an Aurora cam cover on the front bank for your N* but here is the clearance I am getting on my Aurora cam cover to passinger side hinge mount.



That clearance is with the engine pan about 3/8's to 7/16's above the bottom edge of the cradle, shown in the two pics below. This is an 88 also. I ended up cutting into the passenger side strut tower requiring the use of coilover springs. I did that so I could leave the trans in the stock location.





If you can make it work without cutting into the strut tower that may save some work.

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Will
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Report this Post03-13-2007 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


I'm sorry that I didn't get some better pics while it was in but the biggest problems were that I had almost no clearance at the right hinge mount, even after triming it to within an inch of it's life, and I wanted a little more room at the fire wall. This is where my OCD anal retetive perfectinist tendencies manifest themselfs. I don't mind reworking the parts too much, as I tend to go by the thought that no matter how nice it looks or how long it took, that can't justify using the part if it's not right.

when Iv'e got it where I like it and am happy with it, I will provide measurements for location.

Joe


Hmm...
I'm going to revisit what I said before...
I left the trans mounts stock and put the Northstar crank bolt right where the 2.8 crank bolt had been, relative to the right cradle rail. Everything lined up just fine. The engine could probably move left a little bit and I may do that, but I think that overall just putting it in the same place that GM put the 2.8 is the best thing to do.

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Report this Post03-13-2007 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DEMONCHILDClick Here to Email DEMONCHILDSend a Private Message to DEMONCHILDEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

ok i see lol....the previous owner of my car named it the reaper as in grim reaper and he had vinyl decal things made up that say the reaper an he put them on the car

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:


I'm sorry that I didn't get some better pics while it was in but the biggest problems were that I had almost no clearance at the right hinge mount, even after triming it to within an inch of it's life, and I wanted a little more room at the fire wall. This is where my OCD anal retetive perfectinist tendencies manifest themselfs. I don't mind reworking the parts too much, as I tend to go by the thought that no matter how nice it looks or how long it took, that can't justify using the part if it's not right.

when Iv'e got it where I like it and am happy with it, I will provide measurements for location.

Joe

[This message has been edited by DEMONCHILD (edited 03-13-2007).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-17-2007 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Worth the wait, worth the effort!!! Back in for the second fitting.
I'm much happier with how it fits in the engine bay now, plenty of room at the right hinge, at the firewall and enough room at the trunk ( whats left of it anyway.)

Here are the parts that did the job.

I also reworked the front engine mount, but I was in such a hurry to get the drivetrian back in the car that I didn't get any pics.

A note to my secret santa, I don't know how you knew to get them in large, but they fit great and are worn any time I'm in the shop, thanks.

That's all for now. Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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Report this Post03-18-2007 01:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yep, tons of room now! I guess you did cut into the strut tower already, I did not notice before. The only thing that seems to have tight clearance on mine is the a/c pulley just over the right fore/aft rail of the cradle, not very much room there. If your not running a/c it won't be any issue.


[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 03-18-2007).]

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Will
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Report this Post03-18-2007 10:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:



Nice job making that. I was thinking that the first one looked bent...

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:



The Northstar will destroy the stock one in a few months if you use the power regularly.

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Hulk
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Report this Post03-19-2007 09:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HulkSend a Private Message to HulkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by cptsnoopy:

Yep, tons of room now! I guess you did cut into the strut tower already, I did not notice before. The only thing that seems to have tight clearance on mine is the a/c pulley just over the right fore/aft rail of the cradle, not very much room there. If your not running a/c it won't be any issue.



Very nice work Joe.

Has anyone done a N* swap without cutting the strut tower? What's the alternative? Is the fit different between the '88 cradle and the others?

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-19-2007 05:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Hulk:


Very nice work Joe.

Has anyone done a N* swap without cutting the strut tower? What's the alternative? Is the fit different between the '88 cradle and the others?


The strut towers are closer together on the 88's than the earlier cars, you could move the drivetrain to the left to clear the tower, but you'd need custom axles.

Thanks. Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 03-19-2007).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-19-2007 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


The Northstar will destroy the stock one in a few months if you use the power regularly.


Yeah, even if I had the right bracket to start with I don't think it would stand up to the abuse that it's going to get. ( whats the point of doing this much work for a swap if you don't use the power!!!)

Thanks. Joe

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Report this Post03-19-2007 11:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrizlefrakClick Here to Email FrizlefrakSend a Private Message to FrizlefrakEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well Joe....once again, you amaze. Your fabrication skills are some of the best I've ever seen. Will be sitting on the edge of my seat watching you bring this monster to life (once again).

Thanks for taking the time to document, photograph, and share.

Dan

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Report this Post03-20-2007 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85LAMBClick Here to Email 85LAMBSend a Private Message to 85LAMBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I just wanted to say that you are doing a great job
Please keep on posting

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THE BEAST
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Report this Post03-21-2007 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for THE BEASTClick Here to Email THE BEASTSend a Private Message to THE BEASTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by motoracer838:

Here are the parts that did the job.















I also reworked the front engine mount, but I was in such a hurry to get the drivetrian back in the car that I didn't get any pics.



A note to my secret santa, I don't know how you knew to get them in large, but they fit great and are worn any time I'm in the shop, thanks.

Thats all for now. Joe



Joe you have a new PM!

JG

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-23-2007 07:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

It's getting crowded in here,
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Don came over last weekend to help me start stripping the GT to use for Countach body you see in the foreground, Don needed some parts off the car that I promised him last year, so into the shop it went, fourtunantly Iv'e got the hard fabrication done on the Northstar swap, otherwise I'd be hurtin' for room.

I should have some more from the swap by the end of the weekend.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-25-2007 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What I learned today.

If the altenator fails while i'm in the middle of nowhere, I'm fracked! it's a pain to get in and out at home in my shop with a big floor jack and tall jackstands.
to get this thing out takes the following steps.

Remove belt
Unbolt the a/c compressor, let rest on cradle
Unbolt rear alt mount (not shown in pic)
Unbolt main bracket (swing alt up on upper bracket to gain room to acsess hardware)
The remove alt from upper bracket.

(with as tight as every thing is, it's a lot harder than it sounds. I spent a good portion of this afternoon working out what it took to get the alt into the car).

All of that requires me to be able to get the car high enough off the ground to get to it, I think that a new alt is going in at final assembly. Rant off.

On to other things,
This looks like crap.


This doesn't look much better. definantly wasn't meant to be seen from this angle.


Now this I can live with. Here's how I got there.
Moved the coil pack off the valve cover, and onto the rear bulkhed.


Did a little trimming on what was the right side to clear the throttle body.

Some more of the exhaust.
Until I find the tips that I like and fit, this will have to do.

Next on Northstar swap, Grin Reaper style. Wiring.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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motoracer838
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Report this Post03-28-2007 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Click Here to Email motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

An update on the exaust, before moving on to wireing and plumbing.

I found some tips I like and fit the car (just baerley), whactha' think?

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 05-15-2018).]

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cptsnoopy
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Report this Post03-28-2007 10:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Those look awesome!

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lambo88
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Report this Post03-31-2007 04:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lambo88Click Here to Email lambo88Send a Private Message to lambo88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Awesome fab work. I am shoehorning a N* into a Fiero chassis for a Lambo replica and am concerned with the precious little room in the engine bay. I am thinking about separating the upper part of the firewall at the sides (maybe 5") and bending it forward to give me a few extra inches. I will then re weld and strengthen. I can afford to do this because the rear of the interior on a Lambo is vertical. What are your thoughts on this and also did you have a template or measurements when you mounted your x-bar and made your engine mounts? Is there such a diagram or template out there? Also, my tranny appears different from yours. the axles are much further apart coming out of the tranny. Instead of one long axle I will have 2 somewhat equal length ones. Any ideas?
That said, you are doing an awesome job here and thanks for sharing with us all.

Ron

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